"Montreal" Roberto Duran vs. "New Orleans" Sugar Ray Leonard

Leonard would need to be busier with his hands to beat the Montreal version of Duran. He could get away with a low punch-output against Duran in New Orleans. Duran's intensity wasn't there and his attacks were sloppy. Leonard was nicking the rounds and never needed to let his hands go often do so.

This would be a very close fight. I can see Duran rocking Leonard and having him trouble, but he wouldn't be as consistent, especially inside. Duran rocked Leonard a couple of times from the outside when they first fought. Timing was the key for Duran during those moments.

Leonard would probably win via close decision. 9-6

 

"How could Duran not be ready for his chance at redemption?" First of all, he was 38 years old and practically nailed to the floor. Second of all, he was a headcase anyway and had his own whacked-out logic. Maybe he thought that Leonard would fight him "like a man" like he did Hearns. Thirdly, we should ask ourselves why Duran just didn't walk or wade in and hammer Leonard when he could. I believe that he showed reluctance to do that in II and III for the same reason -his readiness and ableness to cope with Leonard's speed and power wasn't there, so he wasn't taken many chances. Speed kills.

So, we agree that he wasn't "good enough at these times" -but you know that this is not necessarily because "Leonard was a better fighter", and more so because Duran wasn't ready or able. When he was ready and able, he won.

Duran could absolutely cope with speed and power when he was sharp. No fighter can cope so well with that stuff when they are soft or had a casual training camp.

Age is inversely related to reflexes. How many greats have testified that they could see the shots but couldn't respond in time? Against Barkley, Bernstein stated to Clancy after watching Duran, still defensively good catch shots with his beard often, "that's the difference between Duran now and perhaps 5 years ago -he never would have been caught with all these shots."

Leonard didn't look well worn to me in the rubber. His legs were as good as ever. I may have to review the Norris fight incidentally. I am not that sure that Norris got a "shot" fighter. Norris wasn't easy to deal with. I'll keep an open mind on that one.

Sure, Barkley did hit harder and Duran did catch shots to the head. The worst two were when Duran's back was to the camera around round 5 and Iran nailed him with 2 solid and short left hooks that would have KOd Godzilla. Again, Duran saw the shots and could prepare even at the microscopic level for them. And Barkley wasn't nailing him with combinations. Barkley could bang in a manner similar to Hagler... but neither could like Hearns who may not have had as much PSI, but would put you to sleep in a second. Shock and awe punching is better than gradual, break-you-down demolition guys.

So, yes, I think that a not up-to-snuff Duran was more wary of Leonard than he was of Barkley and Hagler for that matter. And I think that he had good reason to be.

I don't deny that when in his 30s and dealing with men 2 or more weight classes above him, he had trouble with speed and mobility.

However, I don't agree that we should be overstating that by applying it to the prime Duran. Duran damn near matched Leonard's speed in Montreal and was able to slip superfast combinations like someone gave him a script. The Duran that fought Benitez was not. So, yes the Duran that fought Moore and Hagler may not have been able to cope with Benitez... But the Duran that fought Leonard in Montreal?

I think he would have brought salsa into the ring and eaten Wilfred.

Incidentally, remember Duran grabbing his stugatz at the ropes after the bell sounded ending the fight? He was raging at Wilfred, who's conqueror he just conquered.

Absolutely. Hearns was a true great. He's probably done and is now 61-5-1. When Duran had 67 fights it was 1979 and he was getting ready to face Carlos Palomino. How often was Duran "unprofessional and inconsistent and not fully prepared" in 1979? His record was 66-1. At the point when Hearns was done, Duran fought on for another 20 years!

This partly answers your statement below about Duran "getting physical and motivational passes a little too often".

Okay, but let's take it in context. Duran was competing in the three decades after his peak:
1. after having fought 70 times already
2. without Arcel and Brown, in fact, really without anyone but Nestor Quinones, who was a former detective.
3. he was 12, 15, 25 pounds or more out of his natural weight class and years past his prime. How many natural LWs in history were campaigning at MW in their mid 30s?

...I will agree with the obvious fact that Duran was inconsistent in the second half of his career, but that isn't the complete picture.

I will also grant you that I could not have him as the greatest who ever walked because of no mas and because of his at times woeful inconsistency where he disrespected the very sport that made him great.

But was Ali or Hearns or Leonard greater? I think not.

...perhaps you underestimate Duran?

 

Good memory dpw, I had forgotten about that shot. Actually there were two of them. The right in the 11th round required 20 stitches near Leonard's left eye. Then a left in the last round required 30 more stitches near his right eye. That's two shots from Duran that required 50 stitches.

Too bad for Duran that it wasn't a 15 rounder.

 

Wow. Do you guys ever watch the 1968 -1980 Duran? That Duran could stay on top of Leonard all night long. His iron chin in those day could take any shot and he would pummel Leonard with body shots. It would be just like the first fight but Duran would win by a larger margin.

Remember that the second fight (which Leonard made him sign for because he knew of Duran's bad habit of partying after fights) was still pretty close when Duran quit:

judge: Mike Jacobs 66-68 | judge: Jean Deswerts 66-68 | judge: James Brimmell 66-67.

 

You learn something new every day. I've never heard of a fighter requiring 50 stitches just from taking two blows. They must have been the only two Duran landed that night.

So not only can Leonard not take a punch well but he cuts easy. :!:

 

He got 10 more in his lip after what was probably a headbutt. That's 60 all told. If anyone disputes it, tell them it is from the mouth of Mike Trainer.

[Here I am in league with the 666 Anti-Leonard. For the record, Ray Leonard was great.]

 

Yeah, those 7 rounders really take their toll.

 

:-( atsch

 

10 more in his mouth? He must have been having a bad night but I find it hard to believe he would require 50 stitches from just two blows. He had never been cut in his career I believe.

 

?

 

I think part of it was the diminishing skin elasticity that happens with age. Also, that right that Duran landed where the blood started spurting out in round 11 had 9 years of nightmares written on it. He landed it on the frontal where it curves into the eye.

 

Did I misunderstand you?

You said "Too bad for Duran it wasn't a 15 rounder"(which it was scheduled for) seeming to imply that he would've done more damage over 15 rounds. Hard to do so when you quit within 7.