monzon and hagler slightly overrated?

Before Marvin won the title he faced tough fighters auch as Monroe, Watts, Briscoe, Hart and Warren and had to go to Philly to take on Watts and Monroe. Monzon on the other hand never fought a name opponent until he fought Benvenuti and that was his 80th something fight so if u want to overrate one of them (and that's a big "if") then overrate Monzon. That being said both men are my top 5 MW's of all time based on ability if not resume

 

A little bit. They should have moved up in weight. Okay, they, had tough roads to the middleweight title and are alongside Robinson/Greb the best middleweights ever, but they almost always had the size advantages against ATG fighters.

 

I don't see remaining in one's natural weight class as a basis for saying that one is overrated.

 

All fighters are overrated.

Now can we stop talking about these overrated fighters.

 

Why? Hagler was a small-ish MW and both would have been simply too small for LHW.

Why would they give up a division they were currently dominating to move up to be undersized foes for ATG's like Foster and Spinks? They knew their limitations. Its silliness.

 

I don`t agree with the posts about Hagler. He WAS a beast for a long time... If you really want to accurately judge who he was and what he did. Look at his body of work BEFORE he won the title... They ducked him for quite a time,Valdes Corro Vito HAS to fight him and Hagler gets jobbed ! I think prime Hagler gives anyone a run for their money at middle... Before he got his shot, he fought the beasts of Philly, IN Philly ! the moving up stuff is overrated. What`s wrong with winning a TRUE title ,keeping it and cleaning out a division ?

 

I have them as my #1 and #2 Middleweight Champions of All Time. They were both dominant and consistant. Any Champion that defends his title over a long period and many defenses isn`t going to have all A level comp on his resume.

I dont know as much about Monzon as I do Hagler but I know that Marvin was probably the best Middleweight in the world a couple of years before he won the title. His pre title resume is strong.

With that said I`m not saying either is unbeatable. I think SRR could very well beat both at their respective bests though that a matter of opinion. There are also a few others that could be considered.

 

Great points.

 

Great points as well. Monzon reigned for a long time, damn look at that record ! If memory serves me correct, I think he avenged almost all his losses and draws, not all but most of them. I think they are without a doubt at least top five ATG middles...

 

Both Monzon, and Hagler were very, very, very, very, very good fighters. Unfortunately for both of them, they fought in a division that gave us the greatest fighter who EVER lived, before or since.

 

Absolutely. I mean, who'd they beat?

 

Wow !

Never thought I would have to defend these two ! Monzon and Hagler ruled for so long i cant think why they would be overrated even if someone said they were in the top10 160 pounders ever.
I never saw Monzon but grew up with MMH as champ so would say the following:

Hagler in terms of opposition is hard to defend if you remember Obel,Sibson,Hamsho,Scypion,Lee and a five-times beaten Antuofermo but his late career is full of superfights against other greats (admittedly lighter men) and the marvellous one had already paid his dues and been #1 for years. He came to Minters back yard and smashed a peak fighter, having been robbed in his earlier challenge against Antuofermo. He built a fearsome persona and extracted everything he had to give. He worked for it harder than most and even at this level his training/prep was legendary.
Both these men drew or lost fights but 7 year champions are not common. Its hard to see what more they could have done.

 

Solid point as well ...

 

I love watching Hagler. He was a machine in his prime, and he came up through the ranks the old-fashioned way, by learning his trade by fighting some excellent competition on the way up.

He was a hard-nosed, gritty warrior with a beautiful rapier jab. i think his movement and use of angles gets overlooked a lot. Some say he was overrated as a technician, but I'd beg to differ. He was proficient at any range, understood the value of setting up an opponent before landing the hard shots, and was very patient. He could box, brawl and do anything in between. He had that warrior mentality. Very special middleweight.

But he was not a big middleweight. He was slightly on the small side I think. Today I see Hagler not moving up in weight, but down. I think he could definitely make 154 if he had to.
Marvin was not stupid enough to go for Spinks and rightly so. Spinks would be a big jump and besides, Hagler worked like hell to win the titles, why give them up just as he was starting to enjoy the fruits of his labour?

Frankly, I'd like to see more guys do what Hagler did and not hop about from one division to the next, but establish a long and proud legacy at a single weight. Monzon did the same thing, and it paid off for him too.

I'm not as impressed by Monzon as I am by Hagler but that's just because I don't find Monzon particularly appealing to watch. There was no denying his effectiveness though.

 

Agreed about Monzon. he wasn`t exciting to watch. But he was damn efficient...Long jab punishing right cross, solid chin and he used all his tools well every time out. Long steady reign as king ...