'Monzon KO'd Frazier in Sparring'

Doubtful but possible.Never say never.

 

You know, it's amazing how some people believe a bull**** piece of crap like this that never happened.

 

hahaha

 

If by 'knocked down in sparring' you mean, 'hit with a lead pipe in some back alley' then I might believe it.

 

It didn't happen. Wish I could have seen them spar, would have gladly paid money to see Frazier beat that sack of **** Monzon to a bloody pulp

 

It is rare that in boxing a rumor can be dismissed solely on how bloody unlikely it is. Anything can happen, Frazier might have had anemia, blah blah.

It just doesn't register. Monzon would not, in a million rounds, knock down Frazier in sparring. Maybe if a good-looking broad walked by.

 

That is not true. There is no doubt that Ketchel's knockdown was legit. What happened was that Ketchel and Johnson had apparently agreed to not go too crazy on each other. However, after Ketchel landed a haymaker, which absolutely knocked Johnson down (much to Johnson's surprise (he was not faking)), Johnson got angry and almost immediately went after Ketchel and KO'd him with a punch so brutal, Johnson can be seen picking Ketchel's teeth out of his glove afterwards.

 

The teeth argument was proved wrong. From memory, he was brushing the wrong hand.

Johnson's version was as follows:
First, Ketchell was not in on any fix and thought the whole thing was on the level.
Second, he handled Ketchell easily, but carried him through the rounds (or didnt try to finish him) to make more money for show.
Third, he intentionally took a fall to the ground, in the last round to make things look exciting for the cameras, drum up publicity etc.
Fourth, Ketchell charged in and got a bit excited and very careless, leaving himself open and Johnson landed a big shot that finished the fight.

For what it is worth, i think the truth lies somewhere between. It is pretty obvious that Johnson handled Ketchell easily early on in the fight. I think he summed up that he could win any time he liked and didnt go for the kill when he could have earlier. this was not uncommon in those times and i think he controlled the fight. I think he could have beat Ketchell earlier if he let his hands go, but i also think Lennox could have beaten Tyson earlier if he let his hands go, neither did so we will never know for sure.

I cant believe Johnson delibertately let Ketchel knock him down. I dont see how it is possible he would do this, given that it would give Judges the opportunity to take away his hard earned world title from him (it wasnt an ND match was it?) . Also note how desperate he was to land the KO punch. It was probably the most unocoordinated (yet effective) looking KO punch ever thrown in a world Heavyweight title fight. I think Ketchell definitely got over excited and sloppy, and Johnson was surpised by this and threw an off balance haymaker that landed flush. I dont see how the film could possibly support anything else. If it was a planned fix, why would johnson have thrown a punch which (other than the result) made him look so amateur.

By the way, from my recollections, contrary to popular opinion nowadays Johnson and Ketchell got on very well with each other and were good friends.

 

Go back and read the ringside reports if you doubt it. Then watch the film and watch Ketchel's loop around and miss Johnson. Its laughable that some Ketchel fanboys think he dropped Johnson when Johnson literally toyed with him for the entirety of the fight and at times actually lifted him up to save him from being knocked down after relatively light punches. The only thing the film proves is that Johnson could have knocked Ketchel dead at any time he decided.

 

I agree . Johnson hoisted Stan back on his feet a couple of times when he had unintentionally hit him a little too hard.
What I found significant about the affair is that Johnson has the faster hands.
It isn't just Ketchel fan boys, but Johnson hate boys.

Mendoza states Johnson was badly dazed when he arose and that's why he stumbled over Ketchel after putting him out. I suppose if you hate that much, you see what you want to see.

 

Yes I remember him saying that. Its as ludicrous as his twisting Johnson being dropped in sparring by Gunboat Smith to being knocked out in an exhibition bout.

 

With all due respect, I've seen many similarly sketchy KD's ever year, guys getting just barely clipped on the back or side of the head and then acting as though the ceiling fell in on them. Head shots can be a funny thing. It could have been further exacerbated by Johnson ducking to avoid the blow and losing his balance.

That said, being that the film is not exactly high def, I would rely more on the ringside accounts. And yes, Johnson was carrying him, both literally and figuratively.

 

Ok, rely on the ringside accounts. They said it was questionable as well...

 

yes, and you need to release that footage, pronto

 

Anyone believe the story of middle aged Dempsey walking off the street and into Stillman's ring and icing Tony Galento ? So many different versions of this one have been all over the plce too ...