'Monzon KO'd Frazier in Sparring'

Thats a good question, I've wondered about this story for some years myself.

 

Arcel was there that day so we have two witnesses from what I read. I would see no reason for them to lie and collaborate to lie. I can see that the details could be a bit sketchy but there is no ambiguity regarding the end result...one punch ko.

 

I've watch that KD of Johnson many times. To me it looks like Johnson was going down before the punch was thrown. Ketchel ****s his right...JJ immediately starts for the canvas. The punch if anything clips JJ on the side of his head as he is going down.

The other thing is Gunboat Smith was in Johnsons corner for that bout and was his sparring partner during training for that fight. He stated in an interview just before he died that JJ faked that KD.

Now why he faked the KD...I don't know.

 

OK. Charlotte Observer with a ringside report says that Johnson was dazed by the KD and appeared dazed after the fight. No mention of the KD being dubious.

The Trenton Evening post has another ringside report with no mention of the KD not being legit, saying that Ketchel caught Johnson behind the ear.

Kalamazoo Gazette (yes, I know)... "It was 25 seconds after the the men had left their corner that Ketchel landed the much discussed blow that put Johnson on the floor. As for the knockdown it appears to be as clean as a case of dropping a man as one could see. A hard right hand wallop caught the champion on the head and the negro lit on the the floor on all fours. The dazed manner of the black and the careful way in which he turned over and raised himself proves that Ketchel put one over for which Johnson was not looking."

From the Evening Post (Charleston), wire report...
"Ketchel swung his right hard as the two men were advancing. To those who were in position to follow closely what was happening, the punch seemed to glance around the back of Johnson's head. Johnson declared he was hit behind the ear as he was coming in. He says also that the blow dazed him for a moment."

The Freeman (Indianapolis). "He hit me behind the ear and felled me fairly. It was a hard crack. I had him all the time but he is a dangerous fellow and can strike a fearful punch." - Johnson

The arguments I do read that suggest the KD was a fake suggest Johnson did it to bait Ketchel into rushing him so he could unleash his own knockout blow. This is just ridiculous as Johnson plainly could have ended the fight at almost any time and in any of various easier manners he chose. I have seen plenty of knockdowns equally as strange or stranger, wherein a guy just barely connects and his opponent is flopping on the canvas. Nothing new. In this case, it appears just to be another common "flash knockdown"... I don't really think this is a giant black mark on Johnson's record, just the risk of carrying a dangerous puncher so long to make good film.

 

Who wrote those reports you quoted Seamus?

The Dempsey-Galento story is true. Ive read more than one eye witness account. I dont think Dempsey knocked him out but he gave him a good beating.

 

I agree with Houndini in that Johnson looks like he's clearly on his way down before Ketchel connects. Quite clear on film from the camera angle.
Maybe he slipped and Ketchel's swing glanced the back of his head as he was on the way down.

Yes, Dempsey beat up Galento in the gym, according to contemporary accounts, reported in the press at the time.

 

I can't check from my current location. I've got access to a bunch of newspaper archives. The dateline on all the stories was San Francisco, Colma, Lakeshore... so they were all wire reports being carried by the locals.

I don't quite get the justification of the day that I found in the few articles questioning the KD. They all seem to think that Jack was playing the sly fox and trying to lure in Ketchel. Why would he have to go to such lengths for a KO when he was clearly carrying Ketchel earlier? Also, if he was merely doing it to build interest in a follow-up, wouldn't he do it earlier before Ketchel was completely done in and risk Ketchel not being able to make it to the moment of delivering anything resembling a KD punch? It just doesn't add up either way. And if we are all honest, we have seen more suspicious KD's than that. I think that Johnson just carried a hard puncher too long and got clipped for a flash knockdown. I know this doesn't fit the preferred narrative on Johnson, that he was at all times infallible. But I don't see it as a mark on his record. He was clearly carrying Ketchel for at least a few rounds.

 

The majority of the first hand sources Ive seen, with bylines by men who were actually ringside, have stated that Johnson was play acting when he went down. After the fight Johnson said the punch caught him on the jaw (which it clearly did not) leading many more to assume that Johnson was trying to sell the KD for the moving pictures. Nobody could seem to pinpoint where the punch landed. Some said behind the ear, and some said the arm. The films however dont lie. Johnson is moving in and his lead foot slips forward. As he dips down Ketchel's punch loops around the back of his head. Some have said there are missing frames from the film etc. There is nothing wrong with that film. The only thing wrong with it is to fans of Ketchel or people who dont like Johnson in that it shows that the KD was not legit. Either way there were enough people at ringside who questioned the legitimacy of the knockdown to call it into question with or without the film evidence. I dont think Johnson was infallible at all, but I also dont believe Ketchel knocked him down.

 

All the reports I quoted have datelines from the fight and/or are mentioned as wire reports from the fight. So, they are first hand.

Johnson is quoted in the Freeman article saying that he was hit behind the ear, not on the jaw. Almost all of the articles I read mention this same location. There are more I can dig through and will do so when I have time.

I see no logical reason, and certainly no support for the rationale typically given, why Johnson would pick that time in the fight to chose to go down. He didn't need to go to such extremes to "lure in" Ketchel as was suggested by some next day reports. And if he wanted to draw more interest in the bout, better to do it earlier when Ketchel was still guaranteed of being able to throw a convincing shot.

Another thing to note when watching the fight progress is that Ketchel almost never leads with the right. Usually, he was flailing with his hook or getting smothered by Johnson and reverting to a left uppercut. This may have surprised Johnson for the fraction of a second it took to not completely avoid the blow. Also, he may have just become a bit lackadaisical thinking (rightly so) that Ketchel was gassed and foundering.

Lastly, having been hit on the back of the head, behind the ear, I can vouch that it really can send your equilibrium askew. I just don't find it far fetched that he went down for a flash from a surprise punch delivered surprising vigor by an opponent he probably thought was ready to go.

 

There have been many flash knockdowns over the years of superior fighters. Sometimes the better fighter just has a lapse of concentration.
But the logic above seems irefutable. Why would Johnson pick that moment to fake a knockdown?

 

I think Gunboat Smith suggested the KD was faked to add value to the fight film, not to lure Ketchel in.

 

That's the whole issue ... some say Dempsey landed the best shot in his career and flattened Tony with one shot ... others say he beat him around the ring ... was it a one punch ko or a sparring beating ?

 

Oh. Id never heard that he knocked him out. The accounts I read (and Im no expert) said it was just a beating because he was mad that he couldnt get Galento to work hard.

 

What I've read attributed to Stillman and Arcel was the Dempsey koed Galento with one punch. Stillman said it was the hardest punch he ever saw.

 

I've heard the Galento story anecdotally. When did this supposedly occur?