'Monzon KO'd Frazier in Sparring'

First of all I want to say that the reason I haven't been on recently is because I am running the New Jersey Diamond Glove Tournament with 300 boxers signed up. I get all the applications and I have to match everyone up. PLUS I am working on the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame Induction and Awards ceremony. AND I will be getting all the names of both the Modern and Old-Timers Committee for the International Boxing Hall of Fame within 2 weeks.

I just came back from a Ring 8 meeting in New York, and Vito was their.

I pulled him a side and asked him about this. He stated that he was told that Monzon floored Frazier, not knocked him out, in training. He said that Monzon was training for his bout with Tony Licata at the time. I told him that the tape had him saying that Monzon KO'ed Frazier. He said no, that was a mistake.

I asked him who was the one that told him that, he thought for a few seconds and then stated that he thinks it was Chris Dundee. He also stated that he never saw it himself.

 

:good

:goodThanks for clearing that up,h:good.2 questions if you don't mind.Is Dr. Charlie Gelman still alive and if he is,is he still active in Ring 8?Are the meetings still at the Waterfront Crab House?Thanks a million.:good

 

No and Yes!

No my good friend Charlie Celman passed away several years ago and I was asked to give the eulogy and I also rung the bell "9" times in celebration of his life.

Ring 8 still has there meeting at the Waterfront Grab House every 3rd Tuesday of the month.

 

:goodThank you very much for responding!Charlie was a gentleman and a devoted and tireless member of Ring 8 and devoted to the health and well being of retired boxers.May he rest in peace.:good

 

Those who were not around at the time in the 70's have a hard time getting around this myth. First of all, if Monzon had merely sparred with Frazier, the novelty of the middleweight champion of the world stepping into the ring with a former heavyweight champion would have made the news...and not just "boxing news"...and secondly, if Carlos had decked Frazier, it would have been even bigger. I followed boxing religiously in the 70's...and especially Monzon's career..and this crap NEVER happened....believe me, it would have been a huge part of boxing lore if it did...and not as an unsubstantiated legend..but as a fact.
I'm glad Vito didn't report that he had seen flying pigs and dogs in the New York skyline as well...he'd have had many believers of this too.

 

As someone pointed out above, there is indisputable video/film evidence that a great middleweight champion (Stanley Ketchal) once knocked down an all time great heavyweight champion (Jack Johnson) IN A REAL fight! Apparently Vito only says "knocked down". Why is this so impossible?

 

It is a good point, although (and i dont know if it is in this thread or not) but Vito did say when asked directly about this that he was thought this was true but he was only told by other people about this and he didnt actually see the knock down himself.

 

Unfortunately for that argument both film and reports by people who were there cast doubt on the legitimacy of Ketchel knocking Johnson down. Neither of those guys would have ever won an academy award.

 

Things stranger than fiction have happened in sparring.

I think we can probably agree that the threshold for dropping somebody or knocking them out in sparring, is somewhat lower than in a real fight.

Perhaps the story is based on a real event and perhaps it isn’t.

 

Even if it did happen, Ketchel was a gargantuan punching middleweight (one of the hardest in history). Monzon was nowhere near that. He certainly didn't have the power to knock the rock solid Frazier off of his pins.

Impossible for me to envision as well.

 

Meh, I doubt I believe it, I would have heard of it from someone if it did. But what does it take for a guy to say blindshot another one. Marzon had enough power to knock out anyone on this forum if he caught them off guard, so its theoretically possible. The only difference between a top fighter like klitschko and a bottom fighter who is in good shape is basically top fighters know how to deflect shots that normal fighters would just absorb and get knocked out from.

 

I cannot even imagine Monzon sparring w Joe ... Frazier was notorious for never playing in sparring and would have crushed Monzon like a fly ...

 

It never happened ...I have seen middleweights beat up heavyweights, I remember Tom "the Bomb" Bethea beating the dog crap out of undefeated 300lb 6'5 Leroy Jones but Frazier was another class and another class of puncher, why would anyone put Monzon in the same ring with Frazier for nothing and if it did happen I think I would have known

 

It;s funny reading this again, obvious a BS story, but I wonder how many of the oned saying it never happend would believe it had it been Foreman or Holmes, y'know a bigger heavyweight than Joe. I reckon about 80% of them would claim it "could have happened". :yep

 

Monzon wouldn't go near the 175pounders of his time ,I very much doubt he would spar with the Heavyweight Champion.

I was an avid Boxing fan going back to the 60's, I never heard anything about this till I came on here.