Monzon vs Hopkins

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by the cobra, Jul 27, 2008.


  1. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Well, Benvenuti came up from jmw to middle and Griffith from ww. So they are also also smaller than Monzon just like Trinidad and DLH were to Hopkins. And Vldez fell short of beeing great by coming around during Monzon´s reign. Valdez was a very good fighter but not a great one.
     
  2. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    I'm as big a fan of B-Hop as anyone else, but his resume does fall very short of Monzon's. Yes, Griffith was coming up in weight, but he proved himself at 160lbs enough to be an all-time top 10 fighter at the weight, Benvenuti and Valdez are both top 20 Middleweights. There is a big difference in what Hopkins and Monzon accomplished, but I favor B-Hop here by the slightest margin. At his best, Hopkins was as close to a perfect fighter as anyone I've ever seen, I can't tell you his flaws in his prime, because I have never seen any. I think he takes a very close but clear decision (It's hard to bet against Monzon because he never lost once he reached his peak). It would have been very interesting to watch two of the all-time best tacticians square off.
     
  3. Nobudius

    Nobudius Member Full Member

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    X is good in many things, but not great in any particular dept. A great ring general? Perhaps, but look at the minions he was ruling over.

    I see this as an absolute snooze fest, with Monzon dictating the fight over the long haul (like just about every one of his defenses). X would need to press the action here to distort Monzon's rhythm somewhat, but I just don't see him doing this enough.

    Probably rooting for X though. Well, maybe not. Maybe just a casual observer.

    Btw, I'd bet that Monzon had the reach advantage here, & against most. He really was built like a preying mantus.
     
  4. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Hopkins: 6'1". 75" inch reach.

    Monzon: 5'11". 76" inch reach.


    Between two complete fighters of this level, I don't think it will matter much, but all it can do is help Monzon.


    I believe whoever is generally the aggressor throughout will lose, Hopkins would have to get inside of Monzon's reach and land clean shots through his defense, likely being hit with the jab every time he comes in (although Hopkins is great at taking a fighter's jab away, Monzon's jab is a different level than any he encountered) and be exposed to Monzon's counters. If Monzon looks to press forward, Bernard's superior footwork and, in my mind, better defensive skills, will make Monzon miss with the jab at least 60% of the time, as well as most of his follow up shots, exposing himself to Hopkins' counters and occasional lead right hand.

    It's very tough to call, but I think that whever there is an edge, it just slightly goes to Hopkins.
     
  5. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Well, i don´t think Winky´s jab was inferior to Monzon´s and look what B-Hop did to it. On the other hand Monzon isn´t a southpaw so it may play out different.
     
  6. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    It probably would play out differently due to the stances of Monzon and Winky. I do feel Monzon had a superior jab. Winky's is usually more consistant and faster, but Monzon's was more accurate in my mind, stretches out farther from his body, and because he didn't throw it as often as Winky does, it wasn't quite as predictable. B-Hop used his footwork to take Winky's jab away, and he would have a good amount of success if Monzon pressed him like Winky did, but Monzon's arms are longer so he could reach B-Hop from farther distances. Also, as smart and crafty as Winky is, I think Monzon was more ring intelligent.

    All of this argument for Monzon and I still give the slight edge to Hopkins.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    I think a big part of Monzon’s game was his size. He was a very tall and long middle weight. Monzon won’t have a size advantage on Hopkins.

    This fight has distance written all over it. I tend to beleive that Hopkins superior hand speed, counter punching and better defense would earn him a close point’s win over a more active Monzon.
     
  8. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    It's all about who makes the other come to him. Both obviously would have to be an aggressor as certain points and be the counter-puncher at other points, but who ever make the other one generally come to him will win in my mind. I assume that Hopkins' better footwork an edge in speed will force Monzon to be more aggressive throughout. Even so, Monzon still could win, but if this happens (which I think it would) I go for Hopkins.

    Side Note: I just realized how pointless it was to make two of the options involving a knockout.
     
  9. lfsdan

    lfsdan Active Member Full Member

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    Monzon would have made minced meat out of Hopkins.
     
  10. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    After his draw with Bustos Monzon had around 40 more fights before he took the title from Benvenuti. In other words, he was not in his prime. Hopkins could only forge a draw after being dropped twice by Sergundo Mercado, what do you think he would have done if he had fought Monzon then? It's a pointless argument. Were talking about the Monzon that knocked out ATG Emile Griffith, HOF fighter Nino Benvenuti twice, ATG Jose Napoles, defeated future middleweight king Rodrigo Valdez twice (he was past his best in both fights as well), and utterly outclassed excellent perenial top contender Bennie Briscoe, who he to fought to a draw with before reaching his prime. That Monzon against the Hopkins of the Trinidad, Johnson, Echols, Joppy, David-Jackson, etc fights. No one is going to dominate this fight, but I do lean towards Hopkins.
     
  11. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    8-6-1 type of decision either way. It's not going to be one-sided at all. Monzon never beat someone as all-around skilled as B-Hop who was his size, and Hopkins never beat anyone on Monzon's level.
     
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I am inclined to agree. IMO there's not a struck match between the two and this would be a great thinking mans bout. There's not many better thinkers than these two, i can see them splitting bouts left right and center.
     
  13. Smith

    Smith Monzon-like Full Member

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    They are on different planets in my personal opinion. Fight ends in a UD for Monzon after he outroughs, outhinks and outhustles Bernard. Both are slow starters I suppose, but Monzon is superior down the stretch .
     
  14. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Resume-wise, yes, Monzon is on a different planet. But as far as overall ability and skill, no one is really all that higher than a prime Hopkins.
     
  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    and what year did this occur? and what amateur background did the barely pubescent Monzon have? and in what town did this occur? and who else has a 10 rounder in their 9th fight? do you even know what the **** you are talking about?

    please. I am pretty sure I have more film on Monzon than damn anyone on this board, 19 fights at last count.

    An old Monzon defeats emphatically a prime Hopkins any night of the week.