More impressive legacy: Jack Johnson or Muhammad Ali?

I don't nullify it. Would want to see film or at least hear some inside thoughts on the matter (preferrably from Johnson himself) before I reach any firm conclusions, though.

True. That's why I kind of intuitively compared with Clay-Jones. As we all know he took on Liston in the very next fight soon after, but looked to be on another level alltogether in that one.

 

Th Jeffries Sharkey II fight was filmed. The original is aleged to have been something spectacular, but sadly only a few badly eroded rounds remain.

 

These are true great legacies and they really are very, very comparable. Johnson could easily be said to have a better legacy than Ali, even though some dont want to admit it. Head to head, i see the legacies as follows:

Early Pre title career:

Johnson has lots of fights, allegedly the battle royals and other unrecorded ones, the big KO losses to Choynski, some other losses. Ali has the struggles with Jones and Cooper, but also dominant wins over Moore and others, an Olympic gold medal and looked generally invincible.

Ali has to have the edge at this stage of the career as he was more impressive, although i am not necessarilly sure who learned the most from their early careers.

Title Run:
If you count Johnson's coloured title as his world championship, then he really does have a much more impressive run than Ali. He has more fights and an equally impressive caliber of opponents, although it is probably quite close. Saying this, the Hart Anomally must effect Johnson's reign so perhaps this could go close to evening things up for Ali. But i would give Johnson the slight edge, going into the two retirements.

Advantage Johnson Legacies thus far are even.

Ali retired because authorities tried to force him to vietnam, while Johnson retired to get married and also was chased out of the US. During the hiatus, Johnson continued fighting (though like ali, not really training) but he kept his title whereas Ali had to win his back. With both far from their best, Johnson fought years before losing to Willard. Ali, in contrast fought only a handful of fights, before losing to Frazier, and a couple more before Ken Norton broke his Jaw.

With both not fighting at their best, Johnson gets the slight advantage as he managed to always do enough to win or to get a draw (jim johnson). Ali on the other hand great as he performed, did not quite get those same results.

Johnson has the slight edge so far.

This leaves us with the third part of their careers.

Ali started with George Foreman which was arguably his biggest win ever, and then dominated for another 5 years until he split a series with Leon Spinks. This reign included some very, very good fighters. Johnson on the otehr hand, after Willard, didnt get to fight the same level of competition (which would have been Dempsey, Wills and Tunney), but he did fight very good competition that was certainly on the same level as the Leon Spinks or Chuck Wepner type fighters and probably better, and he went 10 years without losing a fight. That is an impressive feat. It wasnt his fault that he seems to have been politically frozen out of the title picture (is this a plus or minus to his legacy? He was certainly more hated than Ali by the establishment, for what it is worth). Anyway, i think that this sort of longevity must at the very least equal Ali's. Either way there is not very much in it.

Johnson should hold a slight advantage.

This leaves the final past prime part of their legacy.

Unlike others, i actually think that what Ali did against holmes and Berbick actually solidifies Alis Legacy. So far outclassed that it wasnt funny, in every department and probably suffering quite badly from parkinsons even at this stage, yet he still could not be KOd and actually could have easily snuck a decision against Berbick!

On the other hand, when johnson fought, he kept fighting world class fighters like Ed Wright, Brad Simmons. These are good fighters and he gave them tough fights also, for several years. And he was still able to put out the impressive wins against simmons and dick Anderson. Johnson i think extended his class for a longer period of time, although i dont think he showed anywhere near the heart of Ali.

Advantage Johnson

Overall: Their legacies are actually very similar. Johnson has a lot better longevity, but Ali has probably some better individual victories spread wider throughout their career. I think Ali probably shows throughout his career, the better will, heart and desire to win, but Johnson probably had a little less need to rely on these factors, because he was quite a bit more dominant than Ali was, when he was at his best. No matter which way you look at it, it is a toss of the coin and very close. Looking purely at legacy and not at head to head, i think if you had to lean one way, i think that you would have to lean towards Johnson's longevity.

 

Joihnson's life and achievements dwarfed Ali's outside the ring.

Jack Johnson was the son of a slave. He came out of the poverty of Texas in the late 19th Century to defy all odds and become the most well know man on the planet. He defied all conventional wisdom, piggybacked no movements and operated as his own man on his own terms. He was far smarter and more learned than Ali could ever dream to be ..

Ali was a combination of elements all coming together and later revised and polished by history .. there is an amazing clip at the end of the Jack JOhnson segment of Bud Greenspan's "Kings of the Ring " where Ali raves about Johnson and ends with "I know I'm The Greatest but Jack Johnson, he was crazy." It's an amazing piece that I have looked for many times on Youtube and cannot find but it sums it all up .. put the two of them in a fox hole ... Johnson would charm the enemy and end up eating in the general's tent , Ali would be pealing potatoes ..

 

"Johnson's life and achievements dwarfed Ali's outside the ring. "


Are you kidding me? If you haven't realized, Muhammad Ali was the most famous and known face around the world from the 70's until Obama ran for president.

Thats not an overstatement or anything. He was bigger than MLK, JFK and all of those people combined. How can his legacy be compared with another human, let alone a boxer.


Johnson is one of my all time favorite heroes in history. But this one is not even close man

 

You are incorrect. Ali was famous as a focal point of the times and the media age. ]ohnson was as famous as a man could be in his own age on his own.

 

That's a huge insult to Vitali.

 

This sounds about right. As much as I love Ali, Johnson's cojones were a size larger. No doubt. Even without the extra sock.