More impressive: SRR reaching 128-1-2 or Pep reaching 134-1-1?

Robinson beat better fighters across more weight, and his one loss (to a greater fighter, however underrated Angott happens to be), was avenged 5 different times, something Pep failed to manage even once.

 

:dealsame here

 

Both records are impressive but i'd have to go with SRR

 

Definitely Ray, and the rationale has already been stated here.

 

Ray beat the better fighters, but this is closer than it is for others to me because I'm also taking Pep's plane accident and remarkable recovery into account.

Both impress the hell out of me. Ignoring outside factors, I think Robinson had the better resume. Taking the plane crash and recovery into account, Pep could be argued as being more impressive. Both were very dominant, so I don't see much to split hairs about there.

I'm giving Ray the edge, but it's close.

 

I would vote for a draw. Both are amazing records.

 

Ray edges it because I think avenging a loss is better than having an extra 5 nobodies who can't defeat you.

 

I would certainly have to agree with this post.

 

Equally impressive..very little between these two greats.

 

I love LaMotta, but I'm not sure I agree with that. In fact I'd probably give the narrow edge to Angott.

 

On possible edge for Pep is that you can argue that Robinson's draw with Basora was extremely controversial (from everything I've read it should be counted a loss) and his fight with Georgie Abrams was also hotly protested among the boxing press.

So you could argue that Robinson's record should have been 127-3-1 which could conceiveably swing it in Pep's favor. I'm not saying I believe that, but it's a possible argument.

 

both records were phenomenal and the competition was GREAT FOR BOTH MEN IN THERE CLASSES.....imagine if they would have retired at that point in time. The amazing thing about Pep was his losses to Saddler did not come until after his plane crash and he still outclassed Sandy in the one fight he fought his way...the other fights would have made Fritzie Zivic proud with all of the fouls, thumbs,knees and wrestling

 

Then, tack on the possibility that Artie Levine may have been robbed of a fourth round knockout win over Robby by referee Jackie Davis in November 1946, something with huge ramifications if true, as this was a near peak SRR who was nearly stopped (by what Ray called the hardest punch he ever got hit by). Robby had a split decision over Servo in his 24th bout, and a majority decision over California Jackie Wilson in his 42nd match, but that was much stiffer competition than what Pep was attempting in his first 42 fights (and Ray's knockdown of Wilson makes that one a UD under the ten point system, then still several decades away from supplanting rounds basis scoring under some jurisdictions).

Bartolo pushed Willie to a ten round SD three weeks after the Angott loss, and there was that draw with McAllister, but I can't find evidence of other similarly close calls prior to that plane crash on Pep's record. Chalky Wright and Manuel Ortiz appear to be the best names among his conquests to that point.

Robby absolutely takes this one when I contrast their records for 1940, 1941 and 1942. Ray was still essentially a professional rookie in his tenth month of punch for pay competition when he dropped and dominated reigning LW Champion Angott for the first time in just his 21st bout. Willie didn't even compete in a scheduled ten rounder until his 43rd bout, when he took a decision over Joey Archibald. Compare their early dossiers. Robinson had only half a dozen opponents or so with losing records, and most of those he was paired with were hard core veterans. Pep had over two dozen early opponents who were novices or had losing records, and again, was boxing in four, six or eight rounders exclusively until Archibald I. Maybe Willie could have gotten to 128-1-2 with the caliber of opposition Ray built that mark on, but the level of opposition he reached Archibald with suggests otherwise. The combined won-loss records of SRR's early opponents (not to mention some of their identities) is light years removed from the combined won-loss of Pep's first 40 or so adversaries.

 

Robinson, the basis of his greatness IMO is his virtual cleaning out of Lightweight and Welterweight before his first shot at a title. And then you have his great Welterweight reign and a Middleweight title win.