More/less deserving contender: Graziano or Hearns?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Jan 1, 2019.


  1. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I wasn’t taking it as an opportunity to rag or that someone else was. I thought it was an interesting take to discuss. The difficulty is I lived through one era so I am more familiar with the underpinnings of the day, and less so on the other.

    So I was just trying to connect some dots...did both have other viable challengers who may have been more deserving? We’re both fights in equal demand? Historically Hagler Hearns seems to have surpassed it, but at the time they were likely equally significant, but it is difficult to contrast how much media had grown by the mid 80’s dwarfing the presence during Zale’s time.
     
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  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    At least on paper, it seems like Schuler got himself in a strong position by beating Kinchen in early 1985. He was, as we know, crushed by Hearns the next year and died shortly afterwards, but in 1985 he had a good case. If Hagler had faced both him and Hearns in 1985, I don't think there would be any room for complaint. Hearns as the in demand challenger and Schuler as the one who had paid his dues in the division.
     
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  3. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with this,..now I hope some answer the parallel contrast to Zale vs Graziano and the dynamics
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Schuler's standing in early 1985 can't objectively be seen as nearly as strong as for example Wiliams's in early 1946 in sporting terms. I think that much is pretty clear. And Kinchen and Mugabi hadn't done much at that time compared to for example Burley, Robinson and LaMotta.

    As for the demand... Graziano-Zale can't been as globally hyped of course. Was it mainly a New York thing or was it national in the US? Were the two first fights televised? Can't say I have the historical insight.

    What was the demand for Robinson-Zale, btw? Robinson was a charismatic, dynamic fighter and he not only dominated WW but also had beat several legit contenders at MW. So wouldn't the public be interested in that fight just as much as one with Graziano?

    Hearns was probably more of the Robinson than the Graziano of 1985, despite not having Robinson's credentials at MW. Perhaps Mugabi was more of the Graziano of 1985 - with better work done at MW, though, but not as many fans.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  5. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Graziano was maybe the most exciting fighter in history. Zale-Graziano 1 was still when old timers were alive considered the most exciting fight ever. No. 2 was Zale-Graziano 2 in excitement. Are you people crazy. Graziano was the biggest draw in boxing at that time. And as far as Hagler, he chose 3 unworthy non middles in 3 whole years. Hearns Mugabi Leonard. Throw in Duran and the hypocrite HAGLER FROZE the division for 3 yrs. After all his bitching about the midchamps in the late 70s he was the worst. He deserved to lose to the guttersnipe Leonard. Justice was served.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  6. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Perhaps this a bit harsh on Hearns, though. He had beat four MWs, one of which was a fringe contender (Murray Sutherland).
     
  8. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hearns was more deserving of the shot. He'd already battered a Ring-Ranked Middleweight, from pillar to post, in 1979 - before he'd even won the Welterweight title. He was supposed to have fought Hagler in '82, after he'd beaten a couple of (I believe, unranked) middleweights, post-Leonard.

    The Hagler fight, scheduled for July '82, didn't happen and he became the 154 Champ instead, by the end of that year. Having beaten Benitez to win the title, he never lost there and, by flattening a common Hagler opponent, in Duran, I think Hagler/Hearns became a real interest; more so than it had been in '82.

    As far as I can tell, Graziano was just a crowd-pleaser/puller at the right place, at the right time; jumping the queue, ahead of people that had been actively maintaining their place in the rankings, over the war years. I see no real sporting merit, on which he got given his shot - but the money made sense and he was in.
     
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  9. ray fritz

    ray fritz Active Member Full Member

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    I know Graziano was more popular in NY than the Yankees.Both Zale Graziano did $$$ ok
     
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