More powerful and durable: Sonny Liston or Mike Tyson?

Which heavyweights as powerful as Cleveland Williams did mike tank hits from? Which heavyweights as durable as Wayne bethea did mike knockout?

 

Look, you have a point, I never said, Liston wasn't good, I just underlined, that we don't know. Indeed, Willams hit hard, indeed Bethae wa durable, but, again and again, these men were small men - We don't know, how Liston would have reacted to a left hook from a 245 pound Wlad, we don't know, how Liston would cope with a Joshua on 250 pounds... At least I don't know. Do you, sir?

 

That’s not what I asked.

 

Frank Bruno punched equivalent to a 13lb mallet swung at 20mph https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1419171/

There's also a video where Bruno mentions Bonecrusher having crazy power

 

Frank Bruno and Razor Ruddock.

Whilst he had no business being in there with Mike, Holmes is more durable than Bethea.

The issue isn't really as simple as that - fighter a can have extreme power but if he can't land effectively, then fighter b who has slightly lesser power but much greater habdspeed, punching mechanics and ring IQ is much more likely to knock out fighter c who has an ATG chin and durability.

Tyson's come forward style and the size of his average opponent means that he should be favoured for durability, tempered with Sonny's power, jab and proficiency at all ranges meaning he likely has the tools to avoid having to show the depths of his durability against most fighters.

 

According to Pierre Coetzer, Bruno was physically stronger than Foreman in terms of raw man-handling sort of strength. When Bruno fought McCall at 247 pounds, and won part of the title, he may have been the strongest ever of all heavy-champs. Stronger than Liston and Foreman and Lewish. Bruno would have faired better in a strong man competition than in a ring. Not a natural fighter, he didn't have the heart.

 

Ofc they do. Lol

 

Both of those fights were dubious

 

He had the heart. Niels. This may be a language thing but you're off the mark there, imo.

He just didn't have the natural instincts of a fighter to pounce when he had an opponent hurt or to clinch when he was hurt himself. But Frank took his lumps. Even in the second Tyson fight where he was terrified, he didn't look for a soft place to land a la Seldon. He stood up and took what Mike threw and it was a lot. Frank lacked many things but heart wasn't one of them.

 

My good man, my assumption is this: If, as you said, Bruno froze, that means that he wasn't able to react. Now, a boxer, who frezes under pressure, lacks something mentally. Well, I would assume this boxer lacks heart, but he possess courage. Well, the english language, I suppose I'll have to check it up, the definition of heart. I suppose we can agree that our dear Frank didn't have the natural fighting instinct usually associated with world champions.

 

I found this info on the internet: ''One of the biggest compliments a boxer can be paid is when someone says that he "has heart." Inside the boxing ring, that means you can take a punch, you show an undeniable will to win, you relentlessly fight to the finish or are just plain unstoppable.'' Well: 'you show an undeniable will to win'.... Hm, if a fighter freezes, I find it hard to say he has heart...

 

I think he would have eventually found his pace on the inside but he kept holding behind the neck and couldn't really adjust after he got called for it a bunch, and Tyson had already figured out slipping his jab

 

Lets give him a pass then. Liston deserves it.

 

For power--have to go with Liston. I don't think any HW hit harder than he did! When you knock out an opponents mouthpiece with teeth wedged in them--(which Sonny did) and also broke sparring partners ribs with 22 OUNCE gloves--that's Herculean type punching power! I give Tyson the edge in durability--although I wouldn't classify either fighter as particularly durable. (Partly because they usually disposed of their opponents very quickly and their durability wasn't tested.)

 

PHUEY!! Liston doesn't have anything Tyson hasn't seen before. He was facing guys bigger than Liston and possibly more powerful. On the other hand Tyson isn't Patterson nor is he a young Cassius Clay. But what Clay had was speed (so does Tyson) and what Patterson didn't have was power (Tyson does). That's a tough combination to present to Liston, isn't it?

Hope your Christmas was delightful and a Happy New Year to come!!