More Punching Power? David Tua or Rocky Marciano

This gets funnier and funnier. You realize YOU were the one who avoided the argument and tried saying I was wrong based upon my WEIGHT?

How tall am I? I'm curious because you just implyied you know my height.

 

He hit Jacobs with a perfect Overhand right.....right on the tip of the chin.
After another cuffing shot Jacobs went down but Abel Sanchez himself admitted he wasnt Hurt.

Do you think that Povetkin could land the same exact punch on jacobs and Jacobs wouldnt be hurt?

Do you think Canelo would be shaking his head at Povetkin after taking a right haymaker to the head against the ropes?


Do you think kell Brook could take the same shots from povetkin without going down?

 

That was not a powerful overhand right by Golovkins standards. Not even close. The setup of the punch was a feint, then he extended the right out to deliver a relatively light shot to the head which folded him like a beach chair. Not even considered a real hard punch from Golovkin.

I think if Povetkin landed the same punch it would probably drop Jacobs too.
Canelo didn't take Golovkins best shots. That one punch you're referring to was his only really good landed flush power punch, and it wasn't nearly his hardest stuff. If Povetkin were only able to land that one punch the whole fight, I think Canelo would've used his bravado to shake it off too.

 

You are clearly happy to assume that they couldn't, without any evidence one way or the other.

 

Perhaps, but so what? Tua is decisively in the category of extremely hard-hitting heavyweights whose power exceeds that of hard hitting cruiser weights. That people think that Marciano hits harder than him or even that it’s practically too close to call is just comical. It shows how badly some of the more misguided romanticizers of the past around here fundamentally misunderstand Marciano and his career.

 

Wait a minute. Because of overrating or underrating Marciano's punching power that means those people don't know anything about Marciano's career?

 

I will play devils advocate here.

Who did Tua actually stop who was world class?

 

Who said anything about people not “knowing anything about” Marciano's career? The bottom line is that some of Marciano's biggest fans around here have a very warped perception of his traits and his skill set.

And I still don’t understand what you were trying to get at with your reply to my previous comment.

We’ve been through this before. A far more meaningful question would be how many fighters withstood how many flush punches from them. There are of course any number of factors other than power that are just as important in determining who knocks out how many world class opponents. Also goes without saying that all knockouts aren’t equal. It’s a more illuminating display of power if you can stop a guy while he’s still in good shape—that is, before he’s been worn down by the accumulated damage and fatigue of previous punches. All that being said, Tua absolutely destroyed former and future champions Moorer and Ruiz, and also stopped Oquendo, Maskaev, and Rahman*. All were world class, full-grown heavyweights.

 

That's pretty much what it means to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Marciano's career. I didn't literally mean not knowing anything at all.

What do traits and skill sets have to do with Marciano's punching power? I could see power having to do with traits but power doesn't really come into skill set.

The point I was getting at is that cruiserweights and heavyweights aren't worlds apart. Matter of fact they are pretty damn close. My example later was that the cruisers of today hit harder than the cruisers in the history of the division, pretty much as hard or harder than many hard hitting heavyweights.

 

We might argue that Tua's opponents were more durable on average, because they were bigger on average, but he didn't stop the best of them.

Tua's key knockout wins are over people who would be contenders further down the line, or who had been contenders in the past, the one exception being the questionable win over Hasim Rahman.

As you can see, I called it for Tua earlier, but I don't see the argument as being as clear cut as you do.

 

We might find out, if these very big 6'3 men ever get tired of draining themselves down to 200lbs to avoid having to fight the Joshuas, Parkers, Wilders, and Ortizes of the world.

Ortiz hits very, very hard. Not sure why people around here seem to sleep on his power. I can honestly say that I think the cruisers don't hit as hard as him.

 

I seriously doubt that Gassiev, Usyk, Kudryashov, Dorticos, and the other top cruisers are draining themselves to avoid fighting the Joshuas, Parkers, Wilders, and Ortizes of the world. This seems to be a very baseless claim which requires proof on your part. Sounds like the same recycled rhetoric used by modernists.

Of course Ortiz is a hard hitter. I don't think anyone would ever agree with you there. There's plenty of other punchers in the division but I would disagree and say that certain cruisers do have power on par with him.

 

Why do you think these men train and drain themselves down to cruiserweight then? (honest, sincere question) I've been around Usyk before and he's huge (pause). Guys like him and the others you named could easily fight as 215lb heavyweights without looking soft or out of shape.

 

You will get to see Usky at heavyweight.

Possibly some of the others too.

 

Whose to say that they are "draining" themselves to make the crusierweight limit. Seems like its been said so much without any real evidence to back it up that you're starting to believe it. Dempsey was 227 before he went into training for the second Tunney fight and got into the best shape he could which ended up being 192 lbs. Just because these guys are naturally 20 lbs over the cruiserweight limit doesn't mean they have to fight 20 lbs over the cruiserweight limit. In every other division we see fighters walk around at 20 lbs heavier than their fighting weight. Why would cruiserweight be any different? Also, a lot of cruisers tend to be skinnier guys like Dorticos who probably doesn't walk around too far from cruiser limit. Keith Tapia and Andrew Tabiti probably don't have to do much to make the cruiser limit. They both weighed under 195 when they fought each other.

I don't doubt that Usyk is huge. 6'3 200 lbs muscular is a physically big person regardless of what shw d*ck riders would like you to think. He was a 200 lb amateur and when he came on the scene the cruiserweight division was rather weak. It was not only physically smart to compete at cruiser but strategically as well since the goal is to get titles and make money. At heavyweight it is much harder to get a title shot not to mention the guys on top are very good fighters (Joshua and Wilder).

The last point I want to make is there will always be fighters who weigh in the 190s when in shape. It's not just light heavyweight or a full blown 220+ lb heavyweight. There have always and will always be guys in between.