More Punching Power? David Tua or Rocky Marciano

Tua

 

The people insisting Rocky hit harder than Tua are the same ones who constantly remind people "size and power arent everything in a fight".

 

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About Tua vs. Rocky, most of it has been said already. To address your question, the actual weights they usually fought at were usually around the 45 lbs. sited, & while there are dininhsing returns above a certain size, ehrn you are talking about around 30% more lbs. that is a great deal.

Now to make the case for Rocky, that would be less if both were around the same body fat.
But still it would be over 20 lbs., & taking Tua where he seemed not at all overweight, lower 220's or so, might be comparable to jearing Rocky hit a littel ahrder walking around at 2-3 (he trained down, but would not have the workrate & likely slower at that size).

Now if it was just the kind of size I see in weight rooms often, maximizing muscle for its own sake, & often with the use of PEDs & modern nutrition, that would mean little.
But apropos of a thread here, Tua had a much larger bone structure to attach natural muscle to.

Clearly Janitor is correct Marciano hit hard, & it takes a lot to KO top yier HWs 9& how past their prime is sometimes overstated).
But while the skills of his greatest opponents & most dramatic KOs were sometimes very high, it is reasonable to say with rare exceptions, guys who are at best CW size cannot take the same blows as large HWs & SHWs.

Now landing them & how often you hit them where & how cleanly is another matter.
Also observing the concussive effect of Tua's shots vs. the big guys like Rahman, it seems pretty clear that this is the one advantage he had over Rocky. Also similar endurance.

Reznik I love your stuff! Inspired works of art are your videos.
Though I do not believe anyone at Jr. MW ever hit as hard as hard hitting HWs.
A conceit has long been that a LHW power punch is like a HW jab.
While sometimes exaggerated, & there can be freakish exceptions, nobody at or below MW is going to be able to generate the force as the hardest hitting big guys-not pulling their punched.
It is just not possible. Though the result when they box guys their own size may gived a different impression.

And we continually see guys who move up-while adding weight can only increase their power at least when lean-who are no longer so exceptional at higher weights.
The examples are legion, Bob Foster & Thomas Hearns being prime ones.
Julian Jackson had freakish power for SMW-maybe he hit like an average CW today.

I agree that the hardest CW men could strike harder than an average HW.
Though Especially considering reydration, their in ring size is not very dissimilar.

When considering power in various sports, such as who could hit a baseball the furthest or throw the hardest, it appears that there is a mininum to be amongst the very elite. These performances can be measured. So around average height & 200 lbs is it.
Though the furthest/fastest tend to be bigger, I was spaking of the mininum, like a Mickey Mantle.

An exception might be the freakish speed of one Steve Dalkowski, but that was largely due to his wrist snap & structure.
In boxing if anything natural mass means more, but I can believe that a Shavers at ~ 6' & 210 lbs. naturally, could hit amongst the hardest punher ever or potentially be #1.
Given his long levers, strength & very large heavy hands.

But while Rocky could still hit hard compared to an average HW, his structure is too small to think he can strike in single punch power like the very top guys.
He may beat much bigger monsters like Bruno, Morrison, Ruddock, certainly Butterbean...
But no way could he register the same force in single shots.

 

The solution to this debate is the following.

For those of you who box amateur or atleast train in a boxing gym. Find someone there who has 20 pounds or more of natural size on you( im not talking about just blubber nor am i talking about sparring an unskilled bodybuilder) then go ahead and insult him and start an argument and wait until he offers to spar you in the ring or make the offer yourself. Or maybe just offer to pay him 100 dollars to try to knock you out. Then try to keep him off of you.

Its a completely different experience than even the most heated sparring war you could have with someone your own size.

Bigger man Bigger hitter. Thats just the way it is. Sure an exceptionally hard hitting welterweight might hit harder than an average middleweight but a 240 pound juiced up PUNCHER is going to produce much more force per punch than a 190 pound puncher. There is simply that much mpre mass behind the punch.

 

Speed is an important factor in punching, so is punch placement. So is timing. Limiting the discussion to sheer force is ignorant because that is the most non-essential component of punching power. That is why there is such wide variance when guys talk about the hardest punchers they have faced, and why most of you think you know more than the guy that got hit.

 

But let us be more precise greynotsoold. And I was grey when not so old too!

I believe sheer force is absolutely huge in measuring punching power. We are not disuccing effectiveness, best punchers, skill-but how hard a man can land a blow.
Force is made up of a few things, & the alchemy is impossible to know completely.
But knowing how to punch, size, strength & leverage combines with speed to be the major components of how hard one can hit.

Even if the hardest puncher may be pretty ineffective.

 

Timing and speed are essential for a clean KO. But the question was about the force.

 

Cheers Entaowed.
And I really appreciate the well thought out post!

What about Langford and Fitz? They could generate unwieldy power at a small weight. Golovkin is probably, or if you ask me, certainly cut from that cloth.

It’s not just one guy saying he hit harder than Povetkin. It’s a slew of sparring partners who say hits on par with, or even harder than heavyweights. There was a prominent poster here who witnessed him dominate Andy Ruiz Jr in a wrestling scuffle. He has crazy strength and crazy power.

This goes against many people’s vested agendas here, but I believe we would see more power landed by Golovkin against bigger opponents who are slower, less agile, and who serve as bigger targets. Canelo and Jacobs were essentially small enough, skilled enough, and fast enough to avoid his power all fight.

 

Or are you the one romanticizing Tua?

 

If you’re gonna keep quoting Golovkin’s sparring partners, shouldn’t you also mention that most of his top real-life opponents (Jacobs, welterweight Brook, Murray, Macklin and of course Stevens, who slugged it out with him for 8 rounds) have gone on the record stating that his power is overrated or overhyped?

 

I agree with you that even big, talented men like Usyk, who walks around at 6’3, 220lbs, will generally have an easier time at cruiserweight than at heavyweight. Usyk and his people also seem to recognize that. If size didn’t matter or if today’s top heavies were as unskilled, untalented, and out-of-shape as some folks around here claim though, that wouldn’t be the case.

 

No. As we’ve discussed five or so times, their testimonials don’t match up with what happened in the fights. Stevens looked like he saw a ghost when he tasted the canvas. He was like “whoa”

 

The only value of force is in the practical application.

 

Yeah but you left out the part when Stevens got up and took a sustained beating (250 more punches) over the course of the next six rounds without going down again... Hard for me to imagine Stevens eating almost 300 punches from a hard-hitting heavyweight boxer but maybe I'm just not giving him enough credit.

 

Golovkin doesn’t swing for the fences every punch.

Golovkin dropped Kovalev in sparring. Kovalev is a modern superstar LHW.
Louis, best puncher of all time, had a bit of trouble with LHW Conn. Landed tons of punches on him before taking him out as well. Nobody is superman.