More Punching Power? David Tua or Rocky Marciano

Rocky delivered better but punch strength? A 220 pound Tua hit harder. his left hook. Nice punch.

 

I do believe G-man might well do better against bigger targets who are slower.
But only up to a certain point, then the advantages in power & absorbing shots would be too great to overcome.

I do not dismiss what the sparring partners say, yet they may have some psychological interest in being able to say they handle a punch that is like a top SHW.
And GGG may go all out on then-would a Povetkin?

Good question on the likes of Fitz & Langford.
The former at his peak was a little lighter, 165 right, all upper body, Langford 5' 7", long armed, 175-180 at his best.

No doubt each had disproportionate power, generated from different physiques.
I believe it is plausible both hit about as hard as the best HWs-of their day.
Who were overwhelmingly much smaller than today.
Even then there must have been an occasional giant paloooka who could strike harder, but not necessarily great boxers.

Still amazing power for their size.
But what is the top end on that-maybe as hard as Dempsey, max?
Still something else: great, perhaps still up to an 8 by today's HW standards.

But I do not think either could hit as hard as say a Tyson, who in turn had excellent power, top speed & skills-but in pure Blunt Force Trauma, was not a 10 either.

Does this seem fair Reznik?

 

DonC*ckell said he had been hit harder with single shots by others than Marciano hit him with but not so many times.
Archie Moore said both Yvon Durelle and Curtess Sheppard hit him harder than Marciano.
I very much doubt that Golovkin hits any harder than David Lemieux or Curtess Stevens.

 

What I'm saying is I think Usyk would probably fight at Cruiserweight either way. No fighter walks around at their fighting weight anymore, like I said its common for a fighter to be 20 lbs over the limit that they fight at. Over the course of an 8 week high intensity camp Usyk more than likely shaves off 20 lbs or close enough to it where it only makes sense to just go down to 200. Especially if it suits him stylistically.

 

I actually had an experience like this in my second ever sparring session. Coach put me in with a guy who had been training for a while and who had 30 lbs on me (we were the same height I was just a skinny *******). Opening round things started off on even turns until I nailed him right on the nose which pissed him off I guess because he opened up on me and went nuts. I slipped a lot of his punches but the ones that did land I could tell were his hardest punches. I mean, those punches didn't even hurt tbh. I'm not knocking the guy or anything I'm just a lot tougher than other people. Always have been. I'm positive I could hit a lot harder than that especially if I was punching against a novice laying on the ropes.

It was a terrible sparring session because it was us two and another two that were all sharing this tiny 8x8 (at the most) ring. I would have tried boxing him if we had the full ring.

 

How come Marciano at a trained down 185 lbs couldn't hit as hard as say Tommy Morrison at a very puffed up 220 lbs (naturally Tommy was a fat 200)? I mean its clear that the guys you mentioned hit harder than Valuev, Ustinov, Big Baby Miller, and all the other 280+ lb heavyweights. But why? Why do these 220-235 lbr beat a 280-310 lbr for power but Marciano can't beat a 220-235 lbr for power? The weight difference is far larger too, between 45-90 lbs rather than 35-50 lbs. It just doesn't make sense. These giants that I mentioned are pretty much a full size bigger (like the leap from light heavyweight to modern heavyweight).

Let's not forget that Marciano trained on a THREE HUNDRED pound bag consistently. Not a 150 or 200 lb bag. We're talking the same size that Tyson developed his power on.

 

Tyson is one of the hardest, and also best punchers ever. So yes, it’s very fair. Although I believe that Dempsey hit harder than Tyson, they’re about three positions away in my rankings.

And yes, Golovkin being able to generate SHW power is far different than beating SHWs in a fight. The average hard hitting SHW will utilize less energy to produce the same power as Golovkin. They will utilize less energy to exert strength.

As for vested interest in sparring partner testimonials, it can only go far. Nobody in the boxing community wants to lose credibility. And saying “fighter X hits like Povetkin,” if it wasn’t true would not look good on you. Maybe one guy embellishes, perhaps two. But pretty much anyone who has been in his camp seem awe struck by his power. The supporting evidence is too overwhelming.

You can see him crushing heavybags with punches that look like cannon ball explosions. You can see him denting bodies in the ring, and moving entire bodies with thudding punches. You can see the extreme discomfort in his opponents faces when he merely taps them with his stone handed jab.

He dropped Kovalev in sparring, and all but whooped him. And Kovalev is not just a LHW Champ, he’s a cold killer. And lil ol Gennady handled him. Yes, sparring is just sparring, but stories like this are the norm and not the exception.

Bringing it back fill circle, Rocky punches harder at his weight than Gennady punches for a MW. And if Golovkin gets compared to Povetkin (by a man who actually shared the ring with both) there is ample reason to assume that Rocky could’ve been the hardest puncher ever or very close to it.

Tua was a murderous puncher in his own right, but I think Rockys all time power has him beat.

 

I think this has been commented on many times but to repeat, there is definitely a rule of diminishing returns on size when we get to these pituitary cases (Ustinov, Valuev). They just seem to lack the neuromuscular coordination to harness that size and strength. It's the same reason those guys have such sh*t balance and plodding footwork. The human body is only made to efficiently carry and move so much bulk. I think the scale of gains in punching power definitely tops off around Wlad/Joshua size, and for many athletes, that is already a bridge too far.

 

If Tyson Fury trained on a 300lbs or.400lbs bag it wouldn't significantly improve his power.

 

I don’t think he’s saying the bag caused him to have power.

He’s saying that Rocky needed that sized bag to train his punching properly.

 

Marciano has his power from the get go.Initially its all he did have!

 

I certainly disagree. Where do you get your evidence from? Sounds like broscience to me.

 

Lemuix is a special puncher but he’s not quite there.

Golovkin has some serious power punching abilities.

Julius Jackson: "ive never been hit as hard, he hits harder than a hw" , "his power is not in the mw class.”

Ola Afolabi: “I’m not blowing smoke, he hits harder than Heavyweights.”

It takes a lot for guys who have been in the ring with Heavyweights to say that Golovkin, a MW, hit them the hardest they’ve ever been hit.

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“Nobody has hit me harder. And I spar with Heavyweights. I just got done sparring with Alexander Povetkin...”

Golovkin sent a 230lb SHW packing his bags and on a plane after one sparring session.

A poster here saw him in person man handling 260lb Andy Ruiz Jr.

Is Curtis Stevens getting these types of testimonials left and right? I don’t think he hits nearly as hard as Gennady, and that thought would never cross my mind. I think if he did, he might’ve been able to hold Golovkin off a bit better from stalking him like his prey. And probably would’ve been able to take his shots better without looking like he seen a ghost.

 

Yep, and a better head start than 99% of boxers who enter the sport.

 

Why does the diminishing returns start conveniently after the modern heavyweight size? Why not at 200 lbs or 220? Valuev and Ustinov don't punch with any worse technique than Foreman. What about Big Baby Miller? He doesn't suffer from any pituitary disease.

Sounds like a bunch of made up stuff to me. Got any science to back this up? After all F=ma so they have to hit harder.

Also, I think you're underrating the giants. Valuev looks pretty coordinated enough to me. At least coordinated enough to become an elite professional athlete and win a world championship.