More Punching Power : Marciano or Tyson.

You guys are making out that Tyson wasn't a tremendously hard puncher from the day he walked in the gym. His punching SKILLS were greatly improved, but he was always a raw power puncher.

 

Carnera was 270 lbs of muscle. Did he hit harder than Tyson? Than
Marciano?

 

No, but I was just pointing out the absurdity of putting up Butterbean as an example of a "bigger" fighter. Also, Carnera lifted a lot of weights to get to his size. Prime Tyson and Marciano for the most part did not. If they did, they would probably be about 235, and 200, respectively.:good

 

How many needles to you have to stick in your ass to be "old school"?

 

Yeah because he lifted weights. Look at him, he is a muscle bound freak, its not normal for a 12 year old to have a defined 6 pack and pecs. Think about it, he went to Juvey many times, you can lift weights there, put 2 and 2 together.

 

Cant we just agree that Tyson or Marciano hit hard lol. And they could ko about ANY MAN with a well time punch or go combo? If they landed it??

 

This is not an argument.
Tyson KOd big guys while Marciano Kod small guys. End of story.

 

Lee Q. Murray was a hard-hitting and avoided black heavyweight and quite a good fighter, and he was 205-210 pounds, and Walcott beat him easily. Joe Baksi was a 210-pounder as well, a tough, durable, strong and technically-sound fighter, and Walcott beat him by a wide decision. Hein Ten Hoff was a ranked European heavyweight champ who was hard-hitting and undefeated at 6'5" and 220 pounds, and Walcott pretty easily outboxed him. In other words, your claims here are false.
Besides which, the heavyweight limit was not 200 pounds in those days, and in fact it wasn't 200 pounds five years ago or any of the 115 years of gloved boxing, so why, exactly, do you think that "heavyweight" should be defined by a 200 pound limit?

Sure. Walcott beat the likes of Lee Q. Murray, Tommy Gomez, Curtis "the Hatchetman" Sheppard, Elmer "Violent" Ray, and Hein Ten Hoff, all of whom were most definitely hard-hitting heavyweights, and he should have had a win over Louis, who was an extremely hard-hitting heavyweight.

In his brief career before fighting Tyson, Tubbs had already been floored by journeymen Clarence Hill and Mike Jameson, and he would go on to be knocked out in one round apiece by Lionel Butler and Jimmy Ellis Jr.

Um, Butler was 5'11" and flabby at anything very far above 200 pounds- not exactly your idea of a "modern super heavyweight." Please, present some kind of reasonable evidence to argue that a mediocre gatekeeper like Butler could punch on par with the likes of Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, or even any of the contenders I listed above.

Wow. Butler was a fat, wild, clumsy, poorly-conditioned little brawler with a weak chin. Care to explain why you think he would beat a swift, fluid, skilled, athletic, excellently-conditioned champion like Charles, aside from having a very slim puncher's chance?

Um, no, besides being stopped by Ruddock, Smith was also taken out inside the distance by Holmes and James Broad long before reaching his waning years.
Layne had never been stopped before facing Marciano and was known for his durability(for example, the RING, May 1951, states that he can "take and give it" and describes him as having a "coconut-like noggin"). Marciano's knockout punch sheered his front teeth off and knocked him unconscious. He was never the same again.

Um, Ruddock himself fought at cruiserweight and weighed under 200 pounds for his first nine or 10 fights.
You see, this is where your arguments are spurious and unreasonable. James Toney, for example, is a naturally smaller man than a Layne or Bivins(or Marciano, for that matter). He 'roided and fattened up 'till he looked like Jabba the Hutt and weighed 235, but that hardly means he's a giant and they're shrimps, ot that they couldn't do the same thing under the same circumstances if, for some reason, they so desired. Toney has stood up against some of the best heavyweights and biggest punchers of this era and was hardly "killed" by a "half-shot." But I suppose you think if he hadn't had 30 pounds of flab spilling around his trunks, he would've been blown out!
There has never been an era in which former middleweights and light heavyweights couldn't move up to heavyweight and compete with elite-level success. In past eras, they simply didn't feel obligated to bulk up so much as they do now in the process(somewhat reasonably in some cases, as more muscle mass can help you to cope against a much bigger man- but, again, it isn't as though the smaller heavyweights of the past couldn't do the same thing in the same situation).

 

Ten Hoff german bum who even coudnt defend EBU belt :yep In best case he level of Paolo Vidoc :hey
Shkor - who is it? A man with a number of PTS and KO losses who deserves two title shots for New England Heavyweight Title :good
Baksi - Yeah a real HW who regularly lost to medoicre guys with 80-85 kg.
etc
Murray - a hard hitting bum who couldnt KO guys of <85 kg while itself weighting at 95 kg. What a avoided puncher :rofl
What a bums club :admin I think them all in sum not lasted even 12 round against likes of Donovan Ruddock or Frank Bruno.

 

Tyson was the first man who STOPED Tubbs. Butler and Ellis did it when Tony was old and even more fat. :yep And you must note, that Butler at his prime lasted till Lewis fight has a streak of 16 wins all by KO, TKO or DQ. And he KOd 2 former world champions. :good

Easy. He stopped guys weighting up to 132 kg, while your guys coudnt stop <85 kg boxers.

I think that athletic comissions NEVER give the opportunity to Butler to beat Charles :rofl Becuse of weight limitations. They are know about possible tragic result. Thats why weight divisions exist. atsch

Who tested Layne? LWHs and CWs? Or again Ten or Eleven Hoffs? :yep I think at cruiserweight he take punch very well, maybe on the level of Michael Spinks

Yeah he was very young. At his prime he weighting around 105 kg with big frame.

Man I ask you in simple way. Toney was NEVER knocked out by <88 kg guys while weighting >88 kg while Layne and Bivins were knocked out by smaller guys. thats all.

 

Bull ****. There is a lot more to it than that.

 

Let the bull alone, I see you walking through the topics with your own ****. If you have not any arguments, than just shut up.

 

Not exactly. The premise of your arguement is that it is more difficult
to knock out bigger men. This problem is there is zilch historical
evidence to back it up. Dempsey went the distance five times in six
fights with Tunney, Gibbons, and Miske, but bombed out big men Willard, Morris, Fulton, Firpo, etc.
Louis was stopped by Schmeling and Marciano, lost to Charles, and was
dropped three times by Walcott, but won all ten of his fights with men
over 210 lbs, nine by knockout and a tenth by DQ which should have
been a knockout. Four of these fights were against men over 250 lbs.
Marciano had eleven fights against men over 200 lbs and won them
all by knockout. He knocked out all five opponents he faced who
weighed over 210 lbs. He clearly struggled more with under 200 lb
men like Walcott, Charles, LaStarza, and Lowry.
Max Baer, Archie Moore, Bob Satterfield-same story--I think the reason
is obvious. Big men are less mobile and easier to hit.

 

I posted mine already, you just chose to ignore it because you knew you were wrong. You posted a few sentences, and said that was all there was. Which is completely inaccurate and full of ****. There is much more to it then that, but you seem to ignore everyone's points.