More skilled: Salvador Sanchez or Vasyl Lomachenko?

From a technical standpoint id go with Loma.
Sanchez is the greater all around fighter IMO.
Perhaps if Loma turned pro sooner and stayed in his weight range we would be looking at his career very differently

 

I never claimed that Lomachenko invented pulling down the guard. Loma had great footwork regardless of his southpaw stance because of how well he used foot-feints, L-steps, and bouncing in and out of range. Being southpaw gives him unique angles to capitalise on, but he capitalises using shifts and pivots, which are skills. Frames are a kind of physical control used to control an opponent's gloves and occupy punch lanes. They're also a very old trick, Holmes used frames extremely well, for example.

 

idk if I'd count them as skills because I'm not sure you can really train to have those as skills. I think they're closer to athletic traits in all honesty, as it's more predicated on innate attitude and mindset. Experience often plays a factor but even plenty of high level and very experienced fighters have a poor ability to adapt and make good judgement calls in the moment if they don't have a coach to guide them. I can definitely see the argument for them being skills though.

 

Take this forum, please.

 

I think the issue here is somewhat of a linguistic one in terms of how we want to define the word "skill". I would argue that what counts as a skill is something which can be trained into a boxer in terms of his physical mechanics, or something that has functional use in a fight. You can train a guy to clinch when he's hurt for example, but you can't train him to have the wherewithal to do that when he is. The ability to judge and make decisions in the ring is largely innate and down to pre-existing mental qualities, I feel, which is why I think it's hard to define things like ring IQ as a skill. With all that said, I do agree with the consensus that Sanchez is the better fighter, and I'm not trying to be a Loma nut-hugger, because I quite frankly do also feel that he underachieved and mismanaged his career.

 

Idk, I think you can train them just fine. You're right of course, it does come down to attitude and mindset but that's just boxing. Some guys can't move their feet properly after 15 years as a pro; some can't help but wing punches or never learn to ring cut etc.

I think the way you get a better Ring IQ is a mix of applying stuff you learn in light, technical sparring; asking coaches or partners why things work and experimenting. For adapting, it's as simple as changing sparring partners between rounds. MMA fighters who obviously have to be incredibly adaptable do this constantly. Id imagine experience in longer fights will play a huge role in this too.

I don't think it's arguable that a guy like Floyd, or indeed, Sanchez or Loma, were born with the ring IQ or Adaptive abilities they had. I think you're half right, they're born with an aptitude for it and the mindset for it then honed it to the level they got to.

 

Good discussion. Loma was more picture perfect at what he did best, but he was almost schockinfly ineffectual when forced on the back foot, while Sanchez could do everything.

 

What good is skill or technique if it doesn't translate?

Sanchez was more effective. Is that not proof of superior skill?

I enjoyed Loma, but there were - still are - many apologists.