Moses Itauma vs Jermaine Franklin set for January 24 in Manchester

Misrepresenting (or just flat out not understanding) what we were talking about doesn't add to the discussion.

Barrf originally argued that Moses' team just wanted to get him rounds and that he'd blast Franklin out in one or two rounds.

I countered by saying I didn't actually think his team was truly interested in getting him rounds and were more interested in building his "new Mike Tyson!" hype. I backed up my opinion by pointing out how Anderson had been put in with better competition from the start of his career. Then I compared how Anderson's 13th fight was against an ultra-durable and competitive Jerry Forrest while Moses' 13th fight was against the corpse of Dillian Whyte who didn't even try in the ring. Thus, asserting that he was ready for Usyk or was going to clean everyone else out was silly at this point.

H8me then took issue with that. He seemed to think that Forrest wasn't good competition or was at least on par with Whyte. He also brought up Anderson being 2.5 years older than Moses.

I thought this was a spurious and nonsensical argument. We were discussing both guys' resume. Anderson being older doesn't matter because I was comparing both guys' competition level through their first 13 fights. Nevermind that both Anderson and Moses have essentially equal amounts of amateur experience. So, yes, Moses is younger, but their experience level was the same at that point in Anderson's career. In fact, Moses himself has said he's been boxing since he was 9 years old. I don't think Jared started anywhere near that young. Yet Anderson is the one who was facing at least semi-legitimate competition while Moses is being handed old men who are just there to fall over.

So your post here makes no sense whatsoever as to what was discussed. Moses at this point in time is no more inexperienced than Jared was in his 13th fight. In fact, Jared had exactly 26 rounds of boxing going into the Forrest fight. Then he knocked out Forrest (who Zhang and Hunter and Franklin and Pulev couldn't knock out) in two rounds. So by the end of both their 13th fights Anderson had exactly one more round than Moses. Yet he'd fought Forrest who is better than everyone on Moses' resume to this point while also facing multiple undefeated prospects with a legit number of fights.

Moses' competition level has been abysmal. His team has done him no favors as far as getting him valuable experience so far. Which is why it's absurd to think he's going to blast out Franklin, or Hrgovic, or anyone else around the Top 10 in a round or two.

 

Moses is on another level to Anderson. Miles apart. Anderson beating Franklin isn't impressive, Itauma got Whyte out of there in the 1st round. He's overhyped but we'll know whether or not he's a hypejob within the next year, he's being moved quickly

 

Anderson never fought Franklin.

Just about anyone would have gotten Whyte out in the 1st round with the way he looked in there.

Moses does look more impressive than Anderson, but that'll happen when you get put in with the Sisters of the Poor. Lots of people were high on Anderson before he got stepped too far too quickly. Anderson KO'd all his early opponents. Moses got stuck in with two guys who were 9-12-1 and 7-7 respectively and couldn't do anything with either of them. Got frustrated because his punches did nothing to them and ended up going the distance with both.

 

Anderson went life and death with an old Charles Martin. He was never talented as Itauma. Those were 6 round fights tbf, Itauma hasn't beaten a top 10 guy yet but it's clear he's far more skilled, he just needs the Parker fight to confirm my suspicion

 

If Itauma gets the Parker fight next he's getting beaten up and losing. Parker ain't some god tier boxer, but put some respect on that man's name.

 

Hi Buddy.
Not on board with your assertion that Franklin should be in the bracket of a " bum " not a nice word to call any boxer if I am honest, he is a good technically sound fighter who comes to fight, not unnerved by fighting bigger fighters has a solid chin, always looks in good shape, and is a good learning curve for Itauma at this stage of his career to my mind anyway.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

Mike,

I was referring to past opponents - shot Whyte and the procession before.

Franklin is a durable enough journeyman, nothing special but might at least last a bit longer... Uninspiring pick, and if he bombs him out early it'll look bad as another wasted bout when a better challenge could've been aimed at.

It's not horrible horrible as such, it's just nowhere near the kind of accelerated progression that screams "next Tyson" or even that they're planning on manoeuvring towards contenders and titles in the next few years - if they believed he was anywhere near what he's currently hyped up as, they'd aim much higher.

Underwhelming is the word - hopefully it'll tell us more about him, but I won't be at all surprised if it doesn't.

 

Hi Buddy.
Firstly thanks for your prompt and polite response, speaks well of you, so looks like I got the wrong end of the stick, apologies on my behalf, going forward maybe temper the " bum " reference, not just in this case, but the terminology for all boxers that have served the sport well,have given the best years of their lives to boxing, have not made large sums of money, but still do the grind, still risk their lives, for our enjoyment ( if that's the right word ) they do not deserve to be deemed bums, I know the term is used frequently, but I feel us, forum members should refrain from such, we have an affinity with boxers, and should afford them the utmost courtesy and respect despite their rankings or ability, that's all I have to say BubblesUK, I hope you take my post in a instructive way, and not a put down on you as a poster.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

I guess it's a case of shared terminology... We all know what we mean by it - cans/bums/etc as a term that's instantly recognisable for an opponent who's probably going nowhere and stands no chance of beating a given much more highly regarded fighter... We know they're not homeless guys, we know that the vast majority of guys who take up the sport wouldn't get near them.

Sure, the term "bum" isn't the nicest out of this kind of context - but in the context of these discussions it's mostly just shorthand... And it's usually the contrast that makes it so.

For me, the "bumfighter" is the one who I see as awful - it's not the fault of the "bum" that a bigger name fighter offers them a fight they can't win (if anything, the fact so many will take it anyway shows a bravery that's completely lacking in the guys choosing to fight them instead of someone more appropriate)... But by comparison, the overmatched guy doesn't belong in there - and by labelling them as bums, the guys who should be fighting much better get the scorn they deserve.


It's not as simple as just "that's awful, don't say it", for me - the context and intent matters most, and too often now it's not really considered before the knee-jerk putdowns come out... Not a pop at you as such, just the trend to police certain words for the sake of it rubs me up the wrong way sometimes.

 

Some armchair quarterbacks think it's so cool using clichés they don't even understand the meaning of. Sadly, the post you quoted back there, was just another example of it.

His back pedal was the biggest load of waffle I have seen in a long time.

 

LOL!

Meaningless verbal diarrhea by the bucketload!

 

Hi Buddy.
Again appreciate you taking the time out to respond, I can see you are not having a " pop " at me, which is a decent and mature approach, you say about the bravery of the bums ( doesn't sound nice ) of which I agree, so even less a reason to call them such, when they are knowingly going into a fight, that at a minimum they will get hurt and beat up, or god forbid worse, and for me, it is as simple as feeling some words are not appropriate, you could have said " a fighter that as seen better days " or " he is over the hill " they fall easier on the eye, but there is freedom of press here, and you can say whatever you like, in whatever context you want, and I support that.
No more from me, been interesting, look forward to many varied and thought provoking chats with you in the future.
stay safe BubblesUK.
Kind regards .
Mike.

 

i guess franklin might be slighly better then the shot whyte we seen but i was hoping for someone bigger

 

He's a good measuring stick. Franklin has been in with two of the 4 biggest hitters at HW and didn't fold. His team wants rounds, Franklin can give rounds. He gives a moderately decent accounting of himself against everyone he's been in with. This is a true step up, just below the top 10. He's a real 11-15ish guy.