Most Cultured Lead Hands in Boxing - Below Heavyweight.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Jan 31, 2025.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/five-most-cultured-left-hands-since-1970.296295/
    I stole the title and term from McGrain. Not a single **** was given in the process. Basically, I'm looking for guys whose lead hands fit this criteria:

    - Accuracy/Precision: Goes without saying, really.
    - Variety of punches: Jabs, hooks uppercuts, and whatever other stuff they can make up on the fly; to the head and body. They must have everything, no uppercut, no Bueno.
    - Technical brillance: hand trapping, hand fighting, milling, disguising shots, stiff arms, same hand combinations, etc.
    - Tactical brilliance: setting traps and patterns, create openings, using it to control his opponents guard.
    - In regards to Power: power alone isn't enough to get on the list, but techniques for creating power with the lead hand can definitely apply. Kinda like how Inoue or Langford use their hips and elbows to torque their hooks to the body.

    Basically, I'm after a guy who can do really cool **** with his lead hand, that isn't all about to power, or even necessarily punches. Fancy parries, interesting feints, hand fighting and hand trapping, etc. all count here. Generally, I don't mind about how far back you wanna go, but I will say keep it to guys with decent amounts of footage and preferably by the time there's multiple camera angles. So like, Gans is probably a bit too early but Ross probably isn't.

    They'll be a seperate thread for heavyweight but let's be honest, that one will do better so I'm not doing it yet.
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    #01 Miguel Canto:

    As far as cool **** with the lead hand, it literally doesn't get better than this guy. At all. Miguel Canto is the best out-boxer I've ever seen, in a conventional and technical sense. His left hook and uppercut are sneaky as all hell and his jab is GOAT imo. From in his crazy feints, patterns and set-ups and this guy gets ranked over Floyd, Locche, Ali, etc for his lead hand - probably movement too, but that's another thread.

    Against Vibonchai:
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    At 21:00 onwards, Canto times Vibonchai's Thai long-guard, and pops a jab as Vibon brings his hands back to himself. When Vibon expects the same again about 10s later, Canto instead ducks down, placing his head in safety, on the outside of Vibonchai's lead elbow, and pops a jab to the body. This pattern continues, Canto keeps piercing his jab through the gaps in Thai's guard like a dagger through chainmail, until about 21:30.

    Here, you see him counter a cross with a left hook, before pulling back to his left and circling Vibon and keeping his lead foot by the Thai's. He does the same thing again seconds later, but instead goes to the body. He steps ofd for a second again, but then steps back into position and does same thing again, but goes back to the head with a lead uppercut. It's beautiful stuff. 3 different punches, all set up the same way, with the same hand, using the same set-up and all landed in about 10 seconds.

    At 40:25, he throws a jab then proactively ducks to avoid the counter - note how the lead foot position is the same as the previous combo. Vibon uses his right forearm to keep Canto's head from getting too close, hoping to keep some space for his shots. Instead, Canto pulls back slightly and comes around the guard with a left hook that just missed. About 2s later, Canto circled to his left, and then ducks again, but this time uses it to load the left and give him the extra few inches he needed. He frames with both arms and steps out of range, pops a few jabs and keeps circling. At 40:50, he ducks again, leaving his head in the position for a cross, and lands a perfect lead uppercut as Vibon steps into range. As soon as his glove makes contact, he ducks again and Vibon's cross winds up missing so badly he falls forward onto his knees.

    There's a writing/communication technique called the Rule of Three which I think also applies here very well (notice that I've used it in this post already). In writing it's little things like using three adjectives to describe something, or to structure a story. Three is a good number for the brain, it's easy to process information in threes, and naturally, we would only consider something a pattern if it's three or more. It's also makes things more memorable, eg: Snap, Crackle, Pop / Reuse, Reduce, Recycle / Stop, Look, Listen. Canto's use of the lead hand vs Vibon is textbook use of this Rule of Three, only with punches. Metaphorically, it's probably best described by the phrase a Feint is a Lie.

    Against Avelar:
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    In the first round, Avelar dips his knees and lowers his base, in order to provoke attacks and start a war. Canto had timed this with his jab in less than a minute. On top of this, he threw his jab at Avelar's right glove. This either prevented the counter, and still kept the space Canto needs to work and see; or bonked Avelar on the nose as he dipped. I like how he changes hand-slots to probe Avelar. He moves his lead hand in a circular, or up and down motion while out of range, letting Avelar decide what to do next. Since Canto is out of range, Avelar's only options are to open himself up or not.

    **** it just watch the fight, it's probably the best lead hand performance ever. (I completely gave up on writing)

    Against Furesawa:
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    Full disclosure, @Ioakeim Tzortzakis spotted these, I just wrote my own description of them.

    At 14:27, Canto parries the Jap's jab with his rear hand, then ducks expecting a cross. He uses the duck to load his knee and hip for a big, leaping left hook. About 3s later,

    14:30: He takes an inside position with the lead foot as Furesawa leans forward, and uses it to land a beautiful, short hook to the body. Similar to how he did against Vibonchai.

    15:08: Canto throws a jab, that's slipped, but he uses the extended lead hand to go for a collar tie before using his right hand to grab his waist and spin around, allowing him to circle off and take new angles.

    15:16: He kept his lead hand extended on Furesawa's right glove; the goal being to prevent him from throwing it (yet), before he pulled his hand, and more importantly his shoulder, back. He hooks off the jab as soon as Furesawa thinks to throw the ctoss.

    These 45 seconds are a perfect
    example of a Cultured Lead Hand.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    #02 Fighting Harada:

    Almost the exact opposite of Canto. Rather than using his lead to keep guys off him, control the fight and keep distance; Harada used his to work his way in and deal lightning fast barrages. He employed all kinds of jabs; fast, heavy, pawing or probing and he threw them in threes and fours too.

    He worked a ridiculously fast and effective left hook, to the head and body almost at will, and his constant hand work. His lead uppercut is scarce, more scarce than Canto's for sure, but the manner in which he throws his hooks makes it simply a matter of degrees whether you all it a hook or an uppercut. He also didn't mind ripping them when a foe leant forward.

    Against Kingpetch (1):
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    This is a younger, less refined Harada. At 19, and very scrappy. Yet, even in this one there's an awful lot of beautiful work done with his lead hand, especially the jab to the body.

    At 14:45, Start of the Third: 10s in, he feints with the jab to set up the right. Beautifully done too, Kingpetch immediately went to jab with him, expecting a classic Harada double or triple jab, only to eat a cross. From there, Harada continues this half-extended jab to draw leads, to the head and body. He uses this feint to bait another jab from Kingpetch, which Harada split with the lead hook.

    At 37:13, Harada works a nice jab, with good variation. At first he fires it to the body, then comes up with a left hook which misses, but he follows that up with a quick double jab. There's a quick reset and Harada steps back into range weaving, and throwing a couple probing jabs to check everything is still in order.

    At 37:34, he throws a beautiful 3-2, then follows through with the cross and turns it into a quick collar tie, preventing much movement. From there, he hooks again but doesn't land clean, then he splits the jab with an awesome left hook which definitely does land. Once Kingpetch is a little shaken, Harada follows it up with a triple left hook. He breaks the pattern with a light cross, before finishing the round with another hook and a jab to the body.

    Against Medel (2):
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    There's a bit of history here for Harada, he was KOed by Medel earlier in his career. That loss was a product of a scrappy, less refined style which relied on speed, stamina and strength. Now, he's a seasoned two weight world champion with two wins over Jofre under his belt. He's mastered his craft and took a much more measured approach to Medel than prior.

    - 20:20: He begins the sixth by coming out with a jab to the head and a cross to the body. Watch how Medel's right hand moves forward to block the jab, almost as an afterthought to getting his elbow in position to block the cross.

    - At 20:43: He switches it up and instead of the 1-2, he dips down and comes back up with a left hook which lands clean in the space made by Medel when he expected a jab. He continues his movement off the hook and jabs to the body as they circle one another.

    - At 20:49: he positions his hand in a position to jab and dips down, before immediately pulling back and avoiding the counter, a few seconds later, he does the same, but instead of pulling back, he slips the counter-hook and pauses, messing with Medel's timing and landing another hook.

    - Following on from the previous hook, Harada crowds Medel, forcing him back with fast feet and double jabs and a right for good measure. He rips a left hook to the body.

    - At 21:10; Harada fakes a jab, before broaching the subject with a jab which lands. He hops on his feet with this one, inching slightly closer to the Thai. As his base widens, he throws a second jab which misses, before bringing his feet back to level, now in range, and the third lands flush and gives Kingpetch a sore schnozz the next morning.

    Against Fammo (1):
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    This is another interesting fight. Iirc I had it as wide as 11-4 for Harada with multiple knockdowns which weren't called. Despite the fact he didn't win, the fight; I find it a very good fight to watch as Harada had moved up in weight, while older, and slower. You can see what he's doing much more clearly as it's not wrapped in the ball of war like it was at 112 & 118. Fammo is a damn good fighter too.

    This fight is probably the best example of Harada throwing long, same hand combinations. The fight is littered with exchanges between lead hands - counter jabs, triple jabs, quadruple jabs, hooks upstairs and down. Check out this exchange as an example.

    At 40:57, Harada feints to the body with the right, before sliding his head and weight across from his right to his left, ripping half a dozen left hooks to the body in quick succession.
     
  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    #04 Michael Spinks:
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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  7. Paul McB

    Paul McB Member Full Member

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    Mike McCallum springs to mind for me…the jab, hook and body punching, all his best work was his left and he tied it all together.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Man, I forgot the Primadona Kool takedown in that thread :lol: I miss all those old excellent trolls. Not had a troll that good since I booted Mendoza.
     
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  9. Dorrian_Grey

    Dorrian_Grey It came to me in a dream Full Member

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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Michael Spinks is the first to come to mind for me, but one who probably deserves honorable mention would be Yaqui Lopez.
     
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  11. Devon

    Devon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk, Harold Johnson, Sergey Kovalev, Wladimir Klitschko, Holmes, Ali, Lennox Lewis, Lomachenko.
     
  12. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    We don't have footage of it, but Sam Langford did a terrific job of sticking and moving on the shorter and shorter armed Barbados Joe Walcott in their WW Title match. Sam had a ten inch reach advantage and a five inch height advantage. Early in his career, when Langford was competing at lower weights, he was perfectly capable of moving and deploying the jab whenever having height and weight advantages. Otherwise, we do have later footage showing how complete he was in other respects.

    According to many yellowed and crumbly newspaper clippings covering Erne-Gans I, Frank did far more than pick apart the Old Master with his jab alone, and this is one of the greatest successful title defenses ever. How good was Erne? Going into Gans II, rival George Dixon was one of only two opponents able to beat Erne. Except for Martin Flaherty (his first career loss), one had to be extraordinarily good to beat him, and only Flaherty and Dixon were able to pull it off via decision over this highly esteemed ring general. His gravestone shows his lived to age 92, having taken very little punishment during his career.
     
  13. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    The Body Snatcher studied films of SRR extensively, and raved about Robbie's combination punching. He was enormously respected by RJJ.
     
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  14. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    My favorite Canto bout is his Merida homecoming against Jiro Takada, the only challenger El Maestro stopped in a title defense. From the start, it was obvious Miguel wanted to get the Jap outta there, so he unloaded everything, like six left hooks in succession. When he hurt Takada and had him cornered, he went berserk with his amazing quickness. Nine of his 15 stoppage wins were in Merida, suggesting he stepped it up when competing at home.

    There was camera isolation on his legs during one Championship Distance defense, and it was impossible to tell any difference in his footwork from round one to round 15. Tremendous conditioning.
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    "Below heavyweight"
     
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