Most fundamentally sound fighter..

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MagnificentMatt, Sep 15, 2010.


  1. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    Harold was a rather short light heavyweight though and did not have exceptional reach. To be as dominant as he was with the jab despite usually having disadvantages in height and reach is quite impressive to me.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,335
    48,702
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yeah Gilberto is fine, but now you've mentioned Roman...how about Roman Gonzalez? Seriously, he's good - at least - at all ranges and doesn't do much wrong. When he loses it will be for want of speed or size, not technical deficits.
     
  3. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    42,502
    402
    Jun 14, 2006
    Really need to see more of Gonzalez but I agree with the Roman shout, although he didn't really come to mind. You can mention Santos Laciar, too.
     
  4. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,617
    313
    Apr 18, 2007
    May 28, 1975, to be precise. (Interestingly, this was a major UPI story in my local paper. Ezz was not in any way obscure or forgotten when he passed, and the headline acknowledged him as a great gentleman, a fine and wholly appropriate accolade.)
    Charles anecdotally claimed following his diagnosis that he "sensed" what eventually killed him even while at his peak. Finely tuned athletes are certainly more sensitive to bodily feedback than sedentary lay people, but yes, it must also be acknowledged that few opponents of Marciano's were able to fully recover from sustained beatings aside from Moore (and to a lesser extent, Layne, who had a good 1954 campaign, and Lowry, who went 4-1 in 1953). Ezz took an unmatched 23 rounds of punishment from Rocky. Who knows? Stephen Hawking has been afflicted with ALS for decades. It does surface in different forms, starting on Gehrig's upper body, and Charles's legs. Hawking's long survival has been attributed to him having a different strain of it, and also to his intense mental activity.

    Recently, it has also been proposed that some neurological damage sustained from boxing can mimic ALS, but aside from LeDoux, no prominent boxer that I'm aware of has been diagnosed with ALS.

    Ezz actually did engage in some arduous physical training following his diagnosis (a newspaper article profiling some of this is on-line, but I can't find it to recover at the moment), and fought like hell against it. Getting up from his wheelchair at the benefit where Marciano and Moore rushed to assist him was a powerful moment, especially since it was his legs which the disease attacked first.
    More so than even Pep and SRR, I think we miss out on lacking footage of a peak, pre-Baroudi Charles. His final match before that tragedy was his knockout of Moore, a masterpiece according to all accounts. (Ezz himself jokingly said, "I think that's the last time anybody outsmarted Archie." )
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,335
    48,702
    Mar 21, 2007
    That's interesting. He talks about outsmarting Moore when he knocked him out? That's interesting.
     
  6. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    Perhaps he's hinting at having feigned being more hurt than he actually was to get Moore to open up and at the same time expose himself to Charles's counter-attack which knocked Moore out.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,335
    48,702
    Mar 21, 2007


    That's exactly what I was wondering about, exactly. In the famous photograph, Charles doesn't look that hurt at all.
     
  8. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,744
    80
    Apr 4, 2010
    You may be right about his height, but his reach was hardly a detriment on my eyes. He always had very sturdy physical dimensions. In his fight with Pastrano the 2 inch height difference was hardly a factor, as Johnson looked to have much longer arms in proportion to his body (Pastrano's arms always did look a tad stubby), and seemed more than capable of holding his own at the preferred range in the jabbing department because of this. Instead he made what is usually touted as a technical masterclass bout pretty ugly in parts by lunging after the constantly moving Pastrano and attempting to make it a scrappy in-fighting affair.
     
  9. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

    19,779
    701
    Dec 6, 2009
    Vernon Forrest. He rarely made mistakes and I love how he fought I wouldn't mind fighting like him, Donald Curry, or Ezzard Charles. I'm a fan of all 3.
     
  10. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    Yet some spectators thought that Charles was close to being knocked out. He must have put on some kind of act.

    This takes away from him being a textbook fighter though... :good

    I've seen Archie Moore use the trick a couple of times, once he failed miserably at it against Giolio Rinaldi, when the referee thought Moore had been hurt and gave him a standing eight count.
     
  11. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    Essentially he was trying to pull an Archie Moore. I think he just didn't have the legs to chase Pastrano all night, but I felt he landed the best and most effective jabs of the bout.

    Harold's reach was listed at 74 inches by the New York Times, which is neither short nor exceptionally long. He was hardly 6 feet tall Carlos Monzon fighting 5'7 opponents though.
     
  12. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,314
    499
    Jan 28, 2007
    Orlando Canizales
    Bernard Hopkins
    Alexis Arguello
    Juan Manuel Marquez
     
  13. El Puma

    El Puma between rage and serenity Full Member

    4,310
    2
    Jan 8, 2006
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0A_e8-DKI[/ame]
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    53,280
    45,423
    Apr 27, 2005
    Eddie Futch used to pin up pictures of Billy Conn in action around the gym, for instructional purposes.
     
  15. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,271
    62
    Jul 15, 2007
    Joe Louis for me hands down