Most impressive run: Hopkins, RJJ or Wlad?

Reggie wasn't very over the hill.

Ruiz was poor, but he was still an effective top 10 rated HW.

Roy struggled against Tarver due to the weight loss in their first fight.

Wlad struggled with Sam Peter.

 

Roy was truly something else in his prime. I know he fought some weak mandos but Jesus Christ his run was unreal.

 

It's not as simple as what you've wrote above.

Things to consider:

He made incredible sacrifices in order to fight at MW, despite there being better opponents at SMW and LHW.

He held size advantages over most of his opponents.

He had no intentions of fighting a huge rematch with Roy, deliberately pricing himself by demanding $10m or no fight. This was after turning down $6m, which would have been his biggest ever payday at the time.

His biggest wins were against guys who'd moved up from lower weight classes.

Roy dominated whilst operating in his 3rd weight class.

 

How could it have been the least impressive?

He beat most of his competition with absolute ease whilst in his 3rd weight class.

Bernard was fighting in a weak division, instead of facing better opponents at SMW and LHW. He was also bigger than most of his opponents.

 

He fought the best competition at MW. But he should have been fighting better oppnents at SMW and LHW.

 

I'm not buying this size advantage thing one bit. It's middleweights fighting middleweights. I'll buy it Brown, Oscar and say Tito but not other middles. Hagler and Monzon also had Griffith, Napoles, Hearns, Duran, SRL etc etc.

 

In terms of height and reach.

Why should he get huge credit for facing the guys who he fought, when at any point he could have been in the mix with better opponents at SMW and LHW?

 

Hi Loudon, I didnt see Hagler go up and challenge Mike Spinks or Monzon go up and challenge Bob Foster.

Unlike those two great middleweights Hopkins did eventually go up to light heavyweight and perform very well despite his advanced years.

I think you're being a bit unfair to Bhop.

As far as the thread goes my inner logician tells me " Wlad " is the right answer as he is fighting in an all comers division unlike Roy and Bernard.

As far as who was the best head to head in their prime I am going with Roy but the romantic in me makes me pretty awestruck at what Hopkins did as an elderly fighter.

Both Roy and Bernard accomplished something unique in my opinion. Roy by defeating Ruiz ( although what James Toney did against Sam Peter was also pretty unbelievable ) and Hopkins will his amazing longevity.

Cheers All.

 

Your opinions are more than welcome mate. It's what enhances the debate.

No, I don't think I'm being harsh.

Yes, Marvin didn't go up in weight. But his circumstances were completely different. He was a 5'9 MW who used to often weigh in well inside the limit back in the days of same day weigh-ins. There was also no SMW division and guys like Spinks were huge in comparison.

Bernard is over 6ft with a 75" reach, and he had fights at LHW earlier in his career. When he made the decision to commit to the division, the majority of the best MW's of the early 90's had either retired or moved up to SMW and LHW.

He could have been in the mix with better fighters, but instead chose to fight naturally smaller guys in a weaker division.

His decision to swerve the rematch with Roy really hurts his legacy.

What I do respect is his great longevity.

Wlad held size advantages over most of his opponents and he often fought in an ultra cautious manner where he held a lot.

Roy dominated most of his opponents in an entertaining way in what was his 3rd weight class.

 

Not sure what you mean by this?

 

In what way mate?

The rematch was there to be made in 2002.

The no.1 and no.2 P4P fighters facing each other.

Roy agreed to drop weight for a 168 C-W.

Bernard had the opportunity to avenge a loss and get his biggest pay day. Yet he demanded $10m or no fight, despite his biggest purse prior to that being $2m.

He just wasn't interested. He didn't want to risk his rep.

I respect his incredible longevity, but not his MW reign. He took the safer route. Fighting naturally smaller guys in a weak division was easier than trying fight guys like: Roy, Toney, Dariusz, Hill and Griffin etc. Bernard was the big fish in the small pond.

 

Agree to disagree! They couldn’t agree to terms financially. You blame Hops, I feel RJJ demanded to much. They also could not agree on a rematch clause. I guess you can blame one or the other, but there is more than one way to make a fight not happen.

If you demand a larger purse and no rematch, well sometimes that makes a fight not happen. The blame is likely mutual

 

Roy was set to earn $8m, Bernard was set to earn $6m.

Roy held a win over him and was willing to move back down in weight.

Bernard refused to compromise.

He demanded $10m or no fight.

How can he not be blamed?

Bernard then had a year out before fighting a mandatory for just over $1m.

He was all mouth.

 

I would say it is the other way, and both guys have said it was over petcentages, rematch clauses and other details...neither guy would budge. You obviously feel Hops should settle for what RJJ wanted....however RJJ did come begging with hat in hand when he felt he needed a Hopkins fight...too late for it to matter for either of them.

You obviously fault Hopkins, I fault both of them equally

Edit: 2002 was not the only opportunity and certainly not the first. They tried several different times and ran into similar snags each time.

 

There's no way that Bernard deserved more, especially as Roy had to drop weight.

Not wanting to accept $6m is one thing, but demanding $10m or no fight is just plain not wanting it at all. On what planet was he going to get anywhere near that?

It wasn't a case of them merely not being able to teach a compromise. Bernard was simply asking for a ridiculous amount which he knew wasn't in any way feasible. He obviously had no intentions of fighting him. Mark Taffet of HBO states that he met Bernard behind closed doors away from the media, but he wouldn't budge.

After seeing Calzaghe beat Roy in 2008, Bernard then told everybody that he had no intentions of fighting Roy anymore, as he was no longer 'Superman' and looked like a shell of his former self.

In 2010 and against Richardson's wishes, he then made the fight, even trying to convince people that Roy had been treated unfairly against Green in Australia.

Roy didn't make any money at all for the rematch. His purse was based on PPV numbers without a guarantee.