What do you think are some wins that get over hyped by fans as getting more credit than they should? I see Mayweather Vs Gatti as the poster fight for teaching a boxing lesson. I'm not saying it wasn't a good performance but when you look at Gatti's history, he had already taken a lot of fight miles before coming into a fight where he was absolutely thrashed by Oscar De La Hoya; This content is protected He then went through the 3 fights with Micky Ward before coming into the fight with Mayweather. By the time he fought Mayweather who was at the top of his game he was about fifty years old in fight years. Not saying Gatti would have ever won prime for prime but if the Gatti of 1995-2000 had fought the Mayweather who fought Conor Mcgregor then that would be about as fair a comparison.
Ali in Superfight 2 against Joe Frazier. It was only a 12 round fight compared to 1 and 3 Ali looked good in the early rounds. He was moving more and you could see he had a plan. It didn't matter there he was in the midrounds with his back to the ropes, getting the worst of it. Ali tried to slow Frazier's momentum but sort of in a cheap way. Ali held, and he moved and he was shoeshining. Smart tactic if you know you have a weak referee Tony Perez you can hold. Ali was holding the whole fignt. 113 times in 12 rounds?(Eddie Futch) Counted he broke off the exchanges by grabbing the back of Frazier's head and pulling him in. It wasnt zesty. Eddie was mad. He complained to Perez during the fight about Ali's tactic. Perez promised he would address it but he never did. A couple of months later Tony Perez ask Eddie Futch to help (voting) for him to get his referee's license in Pennsylvania. Eddie still mad said " whatever happened in New York either you were incompetent or corrupt but either way we dont need you in Pennsylvania. Eddie Futch wasnt a sore loser
Sanchez vs Gomez Yes, Gomez is an ATG in his prime. That cannot be understated when assessing this win. However, Gomez was never a real featherweight, and was never elite at the weight. This kinda makes me question just how good the win is, since if Gomez wasn't elite at the weight the fight was at, is it an elite win? Can't see it as one of the best wins ever.
Just to play devils advocate - what would you think of a proposal that Gomez may have been potentially elite at that weight but Sanchez was simply better and stunted him? Gomez didn't take on featherweight (seriously) again until Laporte almost 4 years later. In between he had engaged in an absolutely brutal war with Pintor and had been visibly slipping for some time. I wonder what would have happened if Gomez stayed there post Sanchez and dedicated to 126.
In hindsight. Going in, Gomez was seen as an unbeatable monster with "no known weaknesses" (per one boxing mag). He'd surprisingly taken out the great Carlos Z a r a t e early, to the surprise of pretty much everyone at the time. I don't know what the odds were off the top of my head, but Sanchez was not supposed to win that fight. Up to that point he hadn't really shown the form in his title defenses that he'd shown against Danny Lopez. So when he utterly destroyed Gomez, stopping him earlier than any other of his challengers, it was a big surprise. The Gomez fight, along with the Nelson fight and his untimely death, cemented the Sanchez legend. And, as you say, Gomez ended up not being an elite at that weight. Sanchez definitely put some dents in the Gomez armor.
I don’t think people overrate this win for Ali at all. I think most agree that it wasn’t the best of fights and Ali didn’t overly impress.
Leonard - Hagler I tend to add this as a crowning achievement in Leonard’s career but the truth is, he was shot/rusty/older and Hagler was shot/old. I could not give Leonard credit for running, throwing a few shot and running again. However, Hagler looked on his last legs as a champion...Leonard was making him look foolish the entire fight. Hagler was missing everything. Both guys looked old and exhausted. Leonard was lucky to have the bell ring because he was stuck in the corner and Hagler was landing. It should be looked at like Ali - Frazier III. A classic fight between two old all-time greats. My card H 2, 3, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 L 1, 4, 5, 6, 7,
Not getting into the scoring debate here but I feel it's hard to overrate an achievement of a fighter coming back after only one fight in five years to take on the unbeaten middleweight champion of the world (for 6 1/2 years and who hadn't lost in over a decade) in a weight class he'd never fought in before. It's an astonishing achievement regardless of whether Leonard was old and Hagler was old. Putting it another way, would it have been a greater achievement if Leonard had not retired and had won in 1983? In some ways maybe but in other ways, certainly not.
Very well put! My following response will not convince you because I can tell you put intelligent thought into your post...but I feel that further discussion is warranted out of respect for your excellent reply. Thanks! Your assessment is dead on in its historical importance. It is deeply impressive what Leonard did after such a long layoff and who he came to fight. It wasn’t MacGregor it was Hagler. Leonards greatness is not overrated. He is pure! However, and this is important, I don’t think Leonard won...some think he did and most think it was too close to call but it matters if Hagler was robbed. I think and he thinks he was. Also Hagler was not the prime Hagler of 83 and Leonard pretty much got a gift decision at best. A draw was likely appropriate. Had the fight been scheduled for 15 round I don’t think Leonard gets to the final bell. If Leonard beats prime Hagler, and I don’t think that is probable, with no experience at middleweight, then it makes Haglers career look unimpressive to lose to a welterweight and perhaps he is just considered a title holder rather than one of the great middles. Haglers loss to Leonard in 88 took nothing away from Hagler because we all know that Hagler career was firmly established. This was just a fight for money and personal glory...not legacy In my opinion it is a overrated win in assessing Leonard overall career because had Leonard stayed retired he would have been still considered just as great without the Hagler win. Thoughts?
Well, you can think that Hagler won - that's okay - but he wasn't robbed. That fight is near enough split down the middle in opinion and most people have it 7-5 to either Leonard or Hagler, depending on their subjective interpretation of what happened. It's not as if virtually everyone watching thought Hagler won it so I think robbery here is a baseless assertion. It was a close fight that could have gone either way. I personally think the right man won but that's neither here nor there. Leonard did win the official decision and on such decisions legacies are built and knocked down - there are plenty of examples throughout history. I don't really follow your logic of it being a historic win but not having a postive impact on Leonard's overall standing. He's in most people's top 20 all-time p4p and that is in large part because of that win over Hagler. Without it, he wouldn't be ranked as highly.
Ali vs williams? Nobody says that Williams was a huge win, simply Ali looked great in his absolute peak in this fight.
Frazier got away with lots of low/borderline hooks in FOTC Ali's right thigh was bruised to the bone Frazier got a break when Perez stopped the action after Ali had stunned him with a right.Perez thought he had heard the bell . Ali's right thigh was bruised to the bone after FOTC, Joe landed several low and borderline shots,it's swings and roundabouts.Ali used the holding to break up Joe's rythmn,if you thought he was bad ,watch Wlad v Povetkin.
