Most Overrated and Underrated heavyweights of patterson/Listons era

These are actually the more relevant yearly rankings, from January 1959 listed as the yearly rankings for 1958

Champion---Floyd Patterson

1------Ingemar Johansson
2------Nino Valdes
3------Zora Folley
4------Henry Cooper
5------Willie Pastrano
6------Archie Moore
7------Eddie Machen
8------Brian London
9------Sonny Liston
10-----Mike DeJohn

 

Again, Ring Magazine ratings and annual ratings at that (which do not illustrate exactly who was rated during the month that a title fight was signed in that year. Beyond pointless. Come back when you have better ammunition and you can tell me what HW champions have ever only defended against #1 contenders. Beyond that your argument is beyond weak.

 

Fighting Johansson certainly diminishes that notion that Patterson avoided mandatory challengers and hard punching ones at that.

 

And Im still waiting for you to list me all of those HW champs that defended against #1 challengers exclusively without exception. Otherwise you can criticise every champion who reigned longer than a year or two for the same thing you are criticizing Marciano and Patterson for, which is taking an elective, something thats always been done and accepted. I say again, your indignation is misplaced.

 

That may be true, but that doesn't solidify the clam that he "avoided" them. Ingo was a solid number one contender with a big punch who had just flattened Machen. And he did after all beat Johansson twice after that first loss.

 

Machen got knocked out by Johansson a lot quicker than Patterson did. Doesn't that make machen vulnerable to being knocked out by big punchers too?

The power of Valdes and Williams represented no more threat to Eddie Machen than they would have to Patterson if that was the case. Machen beat the pants off Valdes twice and Cleveland Williams did not hurt him in their draw.

I think the fact that Ingo knocked out machen when Liston could not proves Ingo was either a special talent (for albeit a short time) or proves that Machen was more susceptible to a knockout than people think.

 

Wait, first of all Marciano and Patterson both fought far more and far higher rated opposition than either Williams or Valdez so dont even go there. Second of all, say what you will but its Valdez' fault for not being able to maintain his rating for more than a few months at a time and its Machen's fault for blundering his opportunities as well by being boring as **** and looking bad when it mattered in addition to being managed by a guy who had ties to the IBC and getting knocked out in a round by the guy Patterson had one of the most memorable three fights series with. Folley doesnt even have a look in because he wasnt a #1 contender while Patterson was champ. Nevermind that during that period the tax situation in the United States was so nuts that it made it difficult for champions earning as much as Marciano and Patterson to be very active. You can criticize Harris but he had a hell of a lot more support and was higher rated than you want to give him credit for. You can criticize Rademacher but he brought more money to the table than anyone else and Patterson would have been a fool to pass that up. You can criticize McNeeley but Patterson was already signed to fight his #1 when that fight was made, likewise with the London fight which is also a bout against a higher rated opponent than you care to admit. You can ***** and moan all you want and go between your cherry picked favorites Williams, Folley, Machen, Valdez, but you havent got a case whatsoever, havent proven it, and havent even shown a serviceable grasp of the events as they unfolded at the time.

 

Ive seen morons who didnt know their ass from a hole in the ground tear down fighters to make their favorites look better but the lengths you go to are ridiculous.

Say what you will about Johannsons jaw but even against Liston its going to be whoever lands first. He had that kind of power and if he hit Liston it wouldnt Williams' overrated power bouncing off of Liston's dome without effect. Johannson had legitimate fight changing power and proved it at the highest level, something Cleveland never did.

 

London v Valdes was in 1959, not '61. London was a warm-up fight for Patterson's defense against Ingo. Cooper had been offered the fight, but his ever cautious manager Jim Wicks, turned it down. London, who had stopped Pastrano and lost to Cooper, gladly took it. Seven very long years later Ali gave the 32 year old London another chance. Brian had lost 8 fights since his loss to Floyd. However, it is Patterson who is criticized for beating a soon to be 25 year old London !