Most Overrated and Underrated heavyweights of patterson/Listons era

"It shows Patterson wasn't any better"

Losing to the same fighter doesn't at all prove two men are on the same level.

All this proves is that both men were over-matched with Ali and Liston.

Can you name a fighter Williams defeated who defeated Patterson?

I don't think there is one.

Patterson defeated Machen and Chuvalo. Williams drew with Machen and lost to Chuvalo.

One can certainly quibble about what this proves, but the problem is Williams never proved with anybody anytime that he was better than Patterson.

"Patterson was afraid of Williams"

He confided this to you?

 

Nah, Patterson would not have fought half the guys he did if that were true. Bonnavena, chuvalo, Huricane Jackson, Even if it was size and speed big muscular athlete Charlie Powell would have been avoided.

 

As champ Patterson missed quite a few deserving contenders out.
Machen&Folley being the glaring omissions.Others were Valdes,DeJohn,Cleroux,Williams. He made up for this to some extent by being more adventurous after he lost his crown, but he still by passed Williams,Terrell, Cleroux , and Folley.

 

This is such a **** description of the fight. How can anyone claim Folley outclassed Mildenberger or was robbed when all he did was lay back and let Mildenberger dictate the pace of the fight, throw a million more punches, land more punches, and only look to throw the occasional right hand counter. Mildenberger was in great shape and landed left hand leads all night long against Folley. Furthermore the referee warned both guys for the head, not just Folley and it was because you had a left handed fighter against an orthodox fighter which often produces head clashes. In the 8th Nispel was totally justified in stopping the fight because Folley had rushed in, head bent down, and when it was firmly under Mildenbergers chin he popped up and butted him. He knew it was justified because he apologized to both the ref and Mildenberger. The ref didnt have to save Mildenberger in that round because even though Folley landed a couple of nice right hands straight down the pipe Mildenberger walked right through them and fired back snapping Folleys head back with an uppercut that made Folley give ground. It wasnt the first or last time he snapped Folley's head back even after he noticeably tired. As Mildenberger tired in the last round or two Folley started moving forward a little bit more but Mildenberger simply turned boxer and continued to land more whereas Folley continued to miss everything but the occasional punch here and there. After the ringside doctor examined Mildenbergers cuts and decided to let the fight go on (which I believe was actually in the 9th not the 8th) Folley got more aggressive and tried to force a stoppage but he was wild and ineffective. Mildenberger continued to land the better shots, like an uppercut to the rubs, and a combination that once again forced Folley backwards and sent him into a shell. In the tenth Folley (who should be remembered as one of the least passionate, most timid contenders ever) instead of pressing to stop the fight just stood ring center waited doing nothing while Mildenberger worked around him in circles scoring points. When Folley did work in close it was always Mildenberger who threw more, landed more, and landed the harder punches. He just fought harder. Period. How a guy goes into a mans hometown and fights such a lazy ass fight and then pretends he was robbed is a mystery to me. As the tenth round started to wind down Folley woke up and started to press forward into Mildenberger and he did land some punches but Mildenberger simply chewed him up while moving backward throwing and landed 2 to 1, landing the harder punches, and once again started the blood pouring from Folley's nose which clearly bothered him. The ref seperated them to warn Folley again and Folley waived Mildenberger in only to be hit with three uppercuts in a row and about 10 solid bodyshots with almost nothing in return. I dont know how they called it a draw much less the idea that Folley deserved it and the for the record the crowd was stunned because it didnt go to Mildenberger not because they thought the draw robbed Folley. Folley was being whistled at (the European equivalent of being booed) for his use of the head along the ropes in the final round.

 

I'll read this through later, I haven't seen the fight.

 

I don't think he did really because Tommy Jackson was rated above those guys when he got a shot. Patterson was to fight the winner of Machen v Folley but there was no winner! It was a draw that temporarily brought the credibility of both fighters into question. so as a solution Floyd fought #3 Harris who was unbeaten.

London was certainly rated above Terrell and WIlliams when he got a shot because the top American contenders (pastrano, Machen, Folley) all lost to Johanson, Cooper and London all within a short space of time.

The Radmacher fight was a gimmie wedged into the weeks after the Jackson fight to save having two camps.

Then Floyd Fought #1 Ingo then #1 Liston. As champion, Patterson always did face higher placed fighters than Williams.

 

Whats the majority here? Stars and stripes? An American publication that said an American got robbed in Germany? Please. Ive seen the fight. Anyone who hasnt couldnt describe it the detail I just did and if need be I'll post screen shots to prove it. Dont be so ready to believe a paragraph you read on Boxrec over the actual fight. It makes YOU look like the one with the agenda. The only agenda I have is corrected the biased American press when it gets the story so blatantly wrong.

 

Stupid logic that simply doesnt jive with the reality of the situation and the context. To fight Rademacher Floyd got paid more than any fighter since Gene Tunney fought Tom Heeney in 1928, maybe more than any fighter in history period. He would have been stupid to pass that up.

London and even Harris were rated higher than Williams and Valdez which seems to be your main gripe here, that tall black men didnt get a title shot. Then those tall black men should have had better records.

 

It's not my logic, don't blame me! blame the guys who could not resolve the situation.. It's how it happened.

Two guys given an eliminator turn up and only fight hard enough to prevent a loss rather than force a win. Happens often. Generally known as a stinkaroo.

Has the champion got to sit around and wait for his two best contenders to face each other again in a fight nobody wants to see again and miss an outdoor fight or is going to take the next best guy?

Yes, London was fined by his own boxing commission for taking a world title fight ahead of Cooper but this was only a tune up for #1 Ingo just weeks ahead. Floyd broke camp to take London as part of his prep for Ingo.

London, ingo and Cooper beat the highest rated Americans at that ...time not Williams.

 

They were all taller than Floyd on film. If it counts for anything Radmacher was big.

London knocked out a lot of guys. On paper, Brian knocked out some common opponents earlier than Liston and WIlliams. Spectacular skills against whom? Spectacular skills is really the opinion if the observer and gauged against quality of opposition. It's tough looking spectacular against a good level. Williams certainly did not. If it is spectacular skills evident only in mismatches versus credentials against guys with winning records who beat contenders it's no contest. Save the highlight reel for entertainment purposes.

but with more credentials to challenge Floyd than Williams had...with the exception of Radmacher (who later did better against Chuvalo than Williams did). Radmacher vs Williams would have been a fun fight.

those two flunked their eliminator.