Most Overrated and Underrated heavyweights of patterson/Listons era

On the face of it of Course machen and folley deserved title shots ahead of Radmacher and London but I understand the sequence of events. It just didn't pan out.

Folley never quite over shadowed machen and machen blew 3 elliminators during Floyd's time at the title. The draw with Folley. The knockout loss to Ingo and the draw with Williams. Then he lost to Harold Johnson and Liston during the Ingo serries then lost a vacant title fight with Terrell. Machen got his chances.

Folley blew his elliminator too. Then he lost to Cooper. by the time folley reversed that Cooper loss Liston beat him. He beat Machen during the Ingo serries when the title was basically frozen.. then Doug Jones knocked him out.

 

Dont try to explain context to these guys. They wont get it.

As for Rademacher, how can anyone fault Patterson for that? He made a ****load of money for that fight. Thats exactly why these guys do what they do. He would have been a moron not to.

 

1957 Folley was not getting a shot ahead of Tommy Jackson especially not Folley because his only win of any note that year was a split decision. 1958 Folley drew with Machen and lost to Cooper. 1959 Ingo deserved a shot before anyone else ... and got one.

 

It wasn't my choice to make. The NBA thought Machen and Folley should fight, and observer Joe Louis thought it was a terrible fight and both looked awful. Had Machen beaten either Folley or Ingo he would have gotten the 1959 shot, for certain, and if he had beaten Folley, he probably would have gotten the 1958 shot over Harris.

My point is only that Harris was a worthy contender.

The article about Fred Saddy of the NBA wanting a Machen-Folley elimination included the NBA ratings which will probably interest you--

Chicago Tribune January 3, 1958

National Boxing Association ratings--

Champion--Floyd Patterson

1-----Eddie Machen
2-----Zora Folley
3-----Roy Harris
4-----Willie Pastrano
5-----Nino Valdes
6-----Pat McMurtry
7-----Ingemar Johansson
8-----Mike DeJohn
9-----Alex Miteff
10---Cleveland Williams

**just an aside--as usual when I am able to find the NBA ratings, they impress me as being slightly better than The Ring ratings. Harris is above Pastrano, which makes sense to me as he beat him. Johansson is #7, and Williams #10, which time would prove to be more accurate than rating Wayne Bethea above both.

 

For what ever reason an elliminator was still required. As is often the case among the best contenders.

Had Harris been #1 he might have been required to take part in an elliminator too. It turns out in this situation #3 was the ranking to have. Harris really scored when machen and folley drew.

 

I just read a brief on-line bio of Harris,

and he was in the army for six months in late 1957 and early 1958, I assume for basic and AIT, probably for the National Guard,

which meant he wouldn't have been able to take part in an elimination in the spring.

 

Harris was as worthy a challenger as Folley and Lower than Machen. But Folley proved to be Machens equal. Nobody can really say why Folley at #2 was any different than what Harris did to achieve #3. Since Folley was Machens equal at the time Harris looks good enough to challenge don't you think?

Unknown Williams was but months into a comeback for this NBA listing at #10. Can you give us any details on what particular 1958 win produced this rating? 18-12 Gene White? 31-13 Frankie Daniels? Seems a bit hasty.

 

My guess would be Holman.