Most Overrated and Underrated heavyweights of patterson/Listons era

Valdes never got the chance to become champion because Marciano or Patterson never gave him a title shot despite Valdes being # 1 rated Ring Magazine Heavyweight Contender in 1953 and 1954, and # 2 rated Ring Magazine Heavyweight Contender in 1958.

You can't become champion if the champion won't fight you

Joey Maxim was NOT a ranking heavyweight contender.

Again we are discussing Pastrano as a HEAVYWEIGHT here, not a light-heavyweight. That's a different discusssion

 

And what about him cleaning out most of the European heavyweight scene?

Valdes scored stoppage victories over

Joe Erskine
Don Cokkell
Dikk Richardson
Heinz Neuhas
Karel Sys
Brian London

Valdes record against Europe is 7-0 with 7 knockouts. All of these men above were rated in ring magazine top 10 at some point in there careers

 

If it's so impressive he beat Maxim at 19, then why do you neglect his losses at age 23-24 to the mediocre Brian London and Joe Erskine? Both men who were stopped inside the distance by Valdes.


"Years after the wonderful fencing duel between Erskine and Pastrano,

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Dundee had been confident that his man Willie could come back from England with a nice little win on his ledger.

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. I was surprised at his skill.

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As it was, he beat Pastrano and a lot of other good fighters. Willie and I left England knowing we had to re-think our plans for the future.

For Willie Pastrano, the defeat was a psychological blow which continued to nag at him on his return home. He entertained serious thoughts of quitting the game and pursuing less rigorous pleasures. Angelo Dundee had other ideas.

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Floyd Patterson was on the throne, Ingemar Johansson had all but killed Eddie Machen and Sonny Liston was thundering across the plains like a charging buffalo.

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Dundee is basically admitting Willie's lack of size and punch keep him from becoming a serious heavyweight contender

 

Joey Maxim was NOT a top 10 rated heavyweight when Pastrano beat him.

True or False?

 

Nino Valdes holds 4 victories over men who received world heavyweight title shots

Ezzard Charles
Don Cokkell
Brian London- 2 title shots
Hurricane Jackson


Seems like Valdes got hosed

 

I just don't see much in either of these men. What did they bring to the table?

Pastrano brought some nice footwork and footspeed/angles, but it's negated when you consider he couldn't crack an egg, and his chin was untested vs skilled punchers.

Harris is mediocre all around, can't punch hard, not much speed, skills aren't overly impressive.


I think both men built up padded records in the heavyweight divison by fighting soft handpicked opposition. A man like Nino Valdes took on everyone, his resume is loaded.

Pastrano and Harris never fought men like Folley, Machen, Liston, Patterson, DeJohn, Williams, 1950s Archie Moore, Satterfield, Carter, Johansson.

The first time Harris stepped up and faced a big puncher after Liston and Patterson was Cleroux. What happened? He got knocked out twice. Henry Cooper even put Harris on the floor with a right hand. I think Harris had a weak chin. His performance vs Liston was flat out embarrasing. I don't think Harris was world class material

 

Except that pastranos record against men on this list was 1-2

And you are trying to argue that Pastrano was a world beater at heavyweight

 

His record against common opponents is better because he got to face Moore and Johnson when they were 35-45 years old while Valdes had to fight the 25-35 year old versions of moore and Johnson

How do we know? He never got his chance to fight for the title..

Despite being ranked number 1 in the world for 2 years, and number 2 ranked in the world for 1 year, and despite beating 4 men who received world heavyweight title shots

I'll say this..while not the favorite he had a good punchers chance against Patterson with floyds vulneravble chin, and floyds propensity to struggle against fighters with height reach size and punching power.