Most overrated fighter ever

Brits

 

Jones beat two ATG's: Toney and Hopkins. Both close to their peaks. Easily.

But apart from that H2H ability is usually based upon: physical attributes, how at your peak you delt with the level of compition you were fighting and how you faired against the best fighters you faced.

In Jones's case he only lost 1 round ve Toney and he won 8 rounds against Hopkins with a hand injury. Nobody has beaten either of these fighters in a more clear fashion to this day.

In Tysons case it is more based upon how he delt with the availible compititon. Which was brutal. I do not rate Tyson as the number 1 H2H heavy but he is up there.

As you say that neither Jones or Tyson have beaten a top 10/20 fighter.

Let me see your top 20 ATG list or H2H list.

 

Jones beat Hopkins and Toney right but like i already posted a dozen time both weren´t peak or in their best form. Jones entered his prime during the time he fought Hopkins, while Hopkins wasn´t what he later became. Jones got to him at the right time. Prime Jones never fought a Prime Hopkins.
Similar with Toney. It was so visible that Toney was far from his best and very weight drained. Still good wins but no great ones.

Yeah, Tyson maybe the best fighter against inferior competition at hw ever but he never translated it against the top competition and that´s what counts. I can´t rate him highly head to head when he always came out short against his fellow greats. I easily would rank Ali, Louis, Lewis, Holmes, Marciano, Foreman, Liston above him h2h and i can think of some other guys as well.

I don´t have any lists anymore but i can give you 30 fighters which are greater than Jones:
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Roberto Duran
Ezzard Charles
Mickey Walker
Archie Moore
Bob Fitzsimmons
Barney Ross
Barbados Joe Walcott
Jimmy Wilde
Eder Jofre
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Muhammad Ali
Sandy Saddler
Pernell Whitaker
Sugar Ray Leonard
Jose Napoles
Joe Gans
Toni Canzoneri
Charley Burley
Emile Griffith
Gene Tunney
Joe Louis
Julio Cesar Chavez
Jack Dempsey
Carlos Monzon
Rocky Marciano

 

Personally I see Pac as being very overrated. As always it comes down to the fact that I thought he clearly lost both Marquez fights.

 

All picking world champions as ' overrated ' , they did something right !

 

Bernard Hopkins

 

Toney was far from his best and weight drained. Toney has said several times that the better man won on the night. Toney never says that ever, if he has a an excuse he will fire it at will or say he was robbed. He did nothing of the sort.

Hopkins went unbeaten for over 10 years after he lost to Jones and Roy beat him with a broken hand.

The reason the rematch never happend was that Hopkins is one unreasonable individual.

Marciano does not rank above Tyson H2H no way no how, Louis does not rank above him H2H either, neither does Liston, although Liston would have beaten Tyson, although that is debatable i suppose. I agree that the others.

Are not higher ATG's than Jones in my opinion. Not convinced about the ones in red.

The ones in red are the fighters who I think are up there H2H. With Duran mabye...

 

Yeah, sure it was Hopkins fault ... both were silly in that matter. It takes two to Tango.

Watch the Toney fight and then watch his previous fights, he was nowhere near his best. Damned, at the walk-in i thought he wouldn´t even get into the ring.

Yep, Hopkins went on unbeaten the next 10 years because he slowly evolved and finally reached his peak somewhere between 1997 and 1999 but he fought Jones in 1993 that are at least 4 years before his prime while Jones was entering his right then.

Just open your eyes and watch the fights and be objective. Just because you don´t rate them, Jones and Tyson, as the best doesn´t mean you can´t be a fan of them. They were highly entertaining and great fighters but boxing has a long history and there just were even better fighters than them.

Care to explain?

Care to explain?

 

kelly pavlik
no 1 p4p on boxrec
hes good but id av im at about 10

 

Joe Calzaghe

 

Quote:
Marciano does not rank above Tyson H2H no way no how, Louis does not rank above him H2H either, neither does Liston, although Liston would have beaten Tyson, although that is debatable i suppose. I agree that the others.

Marciano does not rank that high H2H for me. He had very good stamina and good power. But could be outboxed and did not have the other tools to help him in fights with other ATG fighters at his best.

Liston, has the style to beat Tyson. With his long jab he would be able to keep Tyson on the outside and basically outbox him. But against other fighters; Lewis, Holmes, Ali and the like I think that he would not fair as well as Tyson. But to be honest I am not that hung up on either Louis or Liston H2H. They could have faired well. Both were excellent boxers.

Marciano would have been outboxed pretty badly, by Liston, Ali, (prime)Louis, Holmes and Louis, and beaten at his own game by Tyson who would outmuscle him.


Quote:
Are not higher ATG's than Jones in my opinion. Not convinced about the ones in red.


The ones in red are the fighters who I think are up there H2H. With Duran mabye...

Because, Jones achived more. He went from starting his carrer at 154 and won belts at MW to HW. He beat more than 10 world champions past, current or future when he fought them.

He beat 2 dead cert ATG's who you can make excuses about all you like, but then you can discredit a lot of fighters wins if you were to look at it trying to discredit it. Monzon, Hopkins and Hagler only beat blown up smaller fighters for their biggest wins.

He beat a prime if there is such a thing for Ruiz. Heavyweight world champion. Who may not be very good in terms of all time standings but you would be hard pushed to find many fighters who started at 154, were in their prime at 160/168 and could go up and beat that 225lb Ruiz as comfortably as Roy did.


In terms of H2H.

Jones is the single most impressive fighter that I have ever seen on film. He had the fastest hands, the best reflex's the fastest feet and one of the best boxing brains for a 160/168lb fighter ever. Couple that with hitting very hard with either hand and having a massive variety of punches, he is one of the best, the very best H2H fighters ever.

I do not think Duran ranks above Jones H2H actually, he does have the best win in the history of boxing, but that does not take away that he was more easily beatable and showed than Jones in his prime, note I say more easily beatable because only Whitaker at LW could do it, consistantly if they fought an number of times.

I think Whitaker, Robinson and Leonard all basically are as difficult to beat in their prime as Jones, the other fighters do not have the attributes that Jones had, despite the great attributes they do have.

 

Personally I see Pac as being very overrated. As always it comes down to the fact that I thought he clearly lost both Marquez fights


Agree totally, hes not actually the best in the division below never mind beating up Diaz in his last fight

Now i think about Paulie M is mega over rated - lost his biggest fight.
Struggled against 2 B class fighters yet people still say he is slick with excellent boxing skills i dont see it bar a world class jab

 

Joe Calzaghe

 

comparing eras is pointless imo. too many differences between them. tyson would also crush louis and marciano h2h.