Most overrated HW of all time.

How startling when he fought well into his 50s.

 

To be fair to Big Frank though he only got 4 shots at the title because he was a moneyspinner. He probably didn't deserve to get 4 cracks at the title based on talent or his previous efforts.

 

In my experience Henry Cooper is grossley overrated in England by old white guys who think he was robbed against "that loud coloured fella Clay".

 

He was certainly better than London, Bugner, Dunn and the likes. :yep

I don't think he'd be that far down the line when taking into account the best British HW's ever: Somewhere behind the likes of Lewis, Fitz and Farr etc is fair.

 

Yes that is true. People go on 'If only he had not got cut all the time'... Well between 1957 and end of his career (1971) Cooper was only stopped on cuts in the Ali/Clay fights. Our 'enry's main problem (with one or two exceptions) was he kept getting knocked out when he met the top level fighters!

As for the knockdown, Clay/Ali's glove was not replaced but he did recieve an extra..... 10 seconds between the rounds!!!!!!! The BBC timed it, and it is shown on ESPN in Britain.

 

Well I know the best British HW list is nothing to write home about, as we don't have a great wealth of talent to choose from. But I think Cooper would be even futher down the list than that.

Hide, Bruno and even Danny Williams on a good day would have beaten Cooper. Or am I being too harsh?

 

I'll give you Bruno, head to head. :good

 

he also could be a pushover for anyone with a strong punch.

two of the lesser heavyweight champions proved that, and for the fanboys who say his chin WAS solid, show me another top ten all time great starched with one punch, not once but twice.

 

Lewis took punches that would bring down the walls of a city in some of his fights.

Any puncher who depended on his chin to secure victory would come away sorely disapointed.

 

Holmes, I see him posted in the top 5, a lot of the old timers laugh at that, Ali is often rated # 1, there is a case of him being in the top 4 but how does he get rated over Louis, Foreman was a great puncher but very amatuerish, some have him listed in top 4, Liston, quit in 2 fights vs Ali,was dropped and beaten by a 178lber Marty Marshall and his Big win over Patterson(a frozen Floyd) and Big Cat Williams who was ko'd 1st and faster by 174lb Bob Satterfield, Tyson (great power and skills but NEVER got OFF the Floor to WIN)..Shavers they make him a legend on this site but I seen him fight live, agood puncher but overated

 

Why didn't Tyson, Bruno, Holyfield, Tua, Tucker, Mason, Briggs, Klitschko, Mercer, Morrison, Jackson, Golota, Ruddock, Grant and Weaver beat him then if he was such a pushover? They all had strong punches.

Show me another top ten all time great who beat every man he faced. Hint: there's only one other, he's Italian-American and under 6 foot.

 

Well the top ten is relly a arugment relly. But though not top ten, I think Tunney makes a good top ten sometimes lol.


Gene Tunney.
Ingo
Rocky Marciano of couse
Bowe
And Lewis of couse.

 

Bummy Davis,

I am interested in your top 10 HWs based on your analysis below:

1) Who are the other HWs that are so good Ali has only 'a case' for top 4? Everyone else on the forum has Ali a lock for top2, and most at #1.

2) Where do you rank Holmes as I see you mock a top3 placing.

48 consecutive wins over a 13 year stretch, including Norton, Shavers, Weaver, Berbick, Witherspoon and Smith is a tremendous run of form.

I am also amazed at your comment that 'old timers' would laugh at a top3 ranking, as Holmes is the modern heavy that most resembled one of the craftsmen of the 20s and 30s. I think many old timers would approve of a high Holmes placing. I find the textbook ramrod job, the years of sparring and learning from Ali, plus his will-to-win and general guts as a very difficult combination to overcome.

 

Firstly my 5 cents worth on the Lewis debate. He lost twice by stoppage to perhaps not the best oposition at the time but give the guy his dues he was straight back in there to avenge his loses. Regarding his chin, I don't think anyone can say that Tua, Morrison etc were not big punchers but he with stood some big shots from many guys but stayed vertical, the fact he was knocked/tko'd twice is just unfortunate, hey this is heavy weight boxing brother knockouts are inevitable. I place him above Holyfield at HEAVY as I think he was able/blessed with better tools for the job. Lewis is above Tyson as I think he was just better, Tyson carried a lot of quality to the ring but could be beaten by a talented and metally strong fight which Lewis was. Bowe I consider less than these three due to his short period at the top and I think he would struggle with Lewis whos physicality was similar to Bowe's therefore nullifying a lot of Bowe big weapons i.e. reach.

Now for most overrated I have to say Ali unfortunely. Before I get flamed I would like to say I have Ali top 2/3 all time heavy. His resume speaks for itself but I do think due to his personna the spotlight on him has always shone more brightly and causes people to look back with rose tinted glasses on his performances.

Finally all those who say no ATG heavy has ever beaten taken out by a mediocre fighter like Lewis, I would be interested on your thoughts about Tyson-Douglas. I rate Douglas on the same sort of level as McCall and Rahman and don't see loses to any of the three to be unforgivable.

I prepare to be flamed:good

 

Mate,

Lewis was certainly blessed with greater physical tools than Holyfield. No dount about that. Unfortunately many feel ( I am one of them) he didnt use them as Holyfield would have.

All boxers considered chinny have also survived in other matches. Patterson is chinny, but wasn't knocked down by Moore who put rock-chinned Marciano on the deck. He also annihilated Johansson in two of their matches, and Johansson had a tremendous right hand punch. Patterson is still chinny though, despite these performances.

The Tyson-Douglas example does not support your argument. Douglas was awesome that night, and Tyson went down in a thriller, fighting his guts out like a true champion until the last few moments, and decking Douglas along the way. Lewis caved in like a deck of cards to a single punch in both his losses. The McCall and Rahman that beat Lewis were not a patch on the Douglas that beat Tyson...