Most overrated HW of all time.

Rahman came into the Lewis fight with a record of 34-2-0 with 29 KO's with a stoppage win over Sanders. Tell me how that is not a puncher?
McCall came into the fight with a record of 24-5-0 with 18 KO's and has stoppage wins over Maskaev, Seldon and Akinwande.

The "Sanders was starched by Nate Tubbs so this is not a big deal" does not work either.

Tua built his legacy as a puncher on knocking out your favorite, Ruiz, Rahman and Moorer.
Well guess what, Ruiz was knocked down by mediocre hitting Holyfield and an old Golota, Rahman was starched by Maskaev twice (worst chin in history by your own words), and Moorer was starched by grandfather Foreman.. so by your logic i've just proven that Tua is not a puncher. :-(

McCall and Rahman were both decent contenders. In fact, McCall still is a fringe contender today. Moorer and Bowe were not much better and had their legacies built on their wins over Holyfield. Unless you want to talk about Bowe losing to an old Tony Tubbs, the should've been DQ'ed against Mathis fight or when Golota was completly destroying him right after he knocked Holyfield out. Or how about Moorer being starched by what looks like the lightest KO punch i've ever seen, nevermind lasting 40 seconds against a fat Tua.


Holyfield fought Tyson and Bowe in their primes because they saw him as the much easier fight while still fighting a big "name"; Holyfield admitted this himself.
Tyson and Bowe both dropped their belts to avoid their mandatory in Lewis. Of course that stoppage loss that Bowe had in the amatuers against Lewis didn't help either.

 

You misunderstand me. I'm not trying to make excuses for Lewis losing those 2 fights. He lost them, fair and square. What I am trying to say, and perhaps badly, is that he shouldn't have allowed himself to lose them. In other words, he turned up for the McCall fight and was sloppily throwing right hands without watching for the counter and in the Rahman fight he didn't train properly. They were 2 bad days at the office that marred an otherwise excellent career. They should not be allowed to overrule all the good work Lewis has done and in the case of Zakman this is exactly what he does. It is grossly unfair.

 

For me it Jack Dempsey, he never fought Wills despite him being pretty much the number contender for years turned down a fight with an old almost blind Langford. Instead fought once a year and got beaten twice by the best fighter he fought Tunney also never fought Greb. Marciano gets a lot of stick for his competition but Dempsey's was worse his best win was probably against an old inactive Jess Willard.

 

This is misleading. Lewis only suffered two knockdowns because he was finished both times he was knocked down. Jeffries would have suffered only one career knockdown if he'd just stayed down the first time Johnson floored him instead of getting up three times, for example. Marciano "tied" Lewis in the number of knockdowns suffered, but spent about a fifth as long on the floor and the result of his two knockdown fights were starkly different.

Tunney was only down once.

This is debatable- for example, Louis was in there with both Baers, Schmeling, Galento, Marciano, etc., Tyson fought Bruno, Ruddock, Smith, Lewis, etc., Charles fought Marciano, Satterfield, Ray, etc., and others can be thrown in there. Lewis fought a lot of powerful hitters, no doubt, but a lot of other champions did as well.

However, all of that said, I agree that Lewis is far from the most overrated heavyweight of all time.

 

Yes it is misleading and there are a lot of "ifs" and "buts", but my point was that Lewis was not easy to floor.

Maybe a better perspective would be obtained by making a list of "in how many fights has a fighter been decked one time or more". I don't feel like making that list right now, but i think Lewis will still end fairly high.

You are right.

I went over all champions a few months ago and listed every puncher they faced, and Lewis ended #3 or #2, i forgot. Louis was very close either way.

Well this was actually another foolish attempt to show Zakman that Lewis did not have a glass chin.

 

Chris,

I think the Bowe v. Lewis amateur contest should be completely ruled out as totally irrelevent in any comparison you make of the Big4 (Tyson, Holy, Bowe and Lewis).

Bowe was 18, Lewis was in his 20s. In terms of physical development it is not a level playing field and an unjust comparison.

I am very confident in saying this because in athletics, the purest measure of physical performance, there are a number of athletes who have broken world records in their early 20s (Coe, Ovett to name but 2) whereas it is extremely unusual to even be able to compete in international competition as an 18 year old.

 

possibly the best heavywieght since the 70's....
p4p he was great few men could beat every man they went into the ring with.
great inside fighter
loads of power
long reach
great use of tools
could do everything better than your average

 

get off your ****ing high horse.
trying to be the moderator of the atg club which includes inductees like dempsey,marciano,liston.

greats can get laid out twice by b-level fighters once by pure fluke which would of knocked down any champion ,titleist, tough man ,chuvalo.
he was the first atg to do so.

this atg thing is like trying to win the victoria cross.
it gets harder and harder to win becuase it's to special to give away it was easier to give to the old timers becuase there was none to look up to.
dempsey gets in the club easy not becuase he was a great fighter but that he was a scary guy with monsterous power.....wow tua, tyson, foreman are already in the club then

 

but he was good and pre louis...:think

i would persoanlly say liston he was a great fighter just didnt have the tools his jab is amazing for it's power but it was a shot you could se a mile off long reach big right hand and left hook...but it didnt compile together he would scramble over guys to hit them he looked messy and was a pure bully...there is the re-romantisom of liston as noble but tainted beast but in reality he was just overated becuase he was underated in the firsrt place.

not the worse just not the best

 

Thanks...and I really want to know the answer. I constantly hear the "B Level Fighter" cry from those who discredit Lewis's defeats, but fail to see how Rahman or McCall are any different from top contenders in any other era. :huh

 

I realy don't know who the most overrated heveyweight is. I asume we are talking about champions and tittlests. I would chose from any of the heaveyweight champs who came before Joe Louis. When you don't fight top quality oponents because of their race. I have Dempsy and Johnson in my all time top 10, but I have them there with some reservations.

 

Shitty fighters? Hmmm.

Jack Johnson- Was the first black champ in history, and defended his belt ten times.

George Foreman- was a 2 time champion, had the highest knockout ratio of any linear heavyweight champion, became the oldest champion in history against incredible odds, and was only taken out once in some 80 fights by what most consider to be the best of all time.

Lennox Lewis- Two time olympian. Unified the heavyweight crown ( something you personally give Tyson credit for on a regular basis ) defeated pretty much everyone in his time, and avenged the only losses he ever had. Also, beat over 25 ranked fighters in his career, which I believe is pretty close to being an all time record at heavyweight.

 

No more than fighters in other eras sucked. In fact, your 70's cycle of overratedness theory would tend to support the idea that there were equally sucky top contenders in the era generally considered the best in history.

In what eras did the top fighters not suck?

 

I know that Lewis was older and more experienced than Bowe, but none of this matters to the mind. Bowe still remembers his knockout loss in the amateur finals, which is always embarresing for a fighters. Champions are human too. You can't deny that this takes away from confidence that he had. I'm not saying that this means Lewis automatically wins, i'm just saying that Lewis automatically has an edge here. Just like McCall and Rahman had a psychological edge in the rematches with Lewis.

But the fact that Bowe rather dumped his belt in the trashcan than to face Lewis does make you think about..