Most overrated old-timer?

When one has power and speed like Dempsey had, combined with an attack dog style, the size of the opponent does not mean as much. Dempsey smashed big fighters like Willard, Firpo, and Fulton. I do not think Dempsey was short or short armed at all. Dempsey was dangerous as an out or in-fighter.

Dempsey's competition as a whole was not that bad. Critics will say Dempsey needed a match with Wills ( please let's not have another thread on that ), and he should have been a bit more active as champion. This is true, but overall he fought many times, and defeated a good collection of fighters.

 

I wasn't referring to me, I have him challenging for 9th spot actually. Although i've never been quite sure why, I suppose that done purely from a historical standpoint. I meant the general ranking of him with Bert Sugar and the like. Imagine the fight report from the first Tunney bout if the title had been in Europe for seven years held by a champ that hardly ever defended: "Gene showed the Euro bum how boxing is really done over here with an easy decision to end one of the most pointless reigns in heavyweight history, wherein challengers were either blown up middleweights, big galoots no skill or a geezer that was dying. Oh say can you seeeeeeeeeee...".


For the record: the four fighters that I have competing for the last two places in the top 10 are Liston, Frazier, Jack and Evander. I rate Dempsey as a fine offensive fighter, one of the best, but like many feels he doesn't match well with the better skilled big men.

 

Holyfield at age 34 wasn't exactly in his prime against Tyson either.

 

Even Jack Roper was only 10/1 underdog to Louis. I think that today the odds on him would be a lot longer.

 

You seem to blame me of the same thing you did MDWC earlier: asif i look at size only.

Size is one of many factors. If you have a small great heavyweight like Dempsey against a mediocre, huge heavyweight like Willard, of course you're going to the butchery. However, when that big guy has skills, speed and athletic ability to go with it, you're looking basically at middleweight vs welterweight: a recipe for disaster for the smaller man. There might be one Leonard vs Hagler case where you will feast upon, but 90% of the time it will be Monzon vs Griffith, Hagler vs Hearns, Hearns vs Duran, Hopkins vs Trinidad, Hopkins vs Dela Hoya, Monzon vs Napoles etc etc all over.

Perhaps if you actually saw Lewis or Tyson decapitate a few smaller guys then you'd know what a mismatch a talented 240lbs fighters vs a talented 180lbs one is. The only example i can give you is Tyson vs Spinks and that wasn't pretty.

 

I think there are some misconceptions that I need to clear up. I do not have Dempsey in my top 5 head to head. I have him at #7 or #8. However, I do think one can claim Dempsey as a top 5 head to head heavyweight at say #4 or #5 for the reasons I listed. Dempsey’s power, speed, and aggressiveness were extra special. Unlike most power punchers, Dempsey had quick feet, and a versatile attack with either head to the head or the body. There is not much of a difference between #4 and #8 in my opinion.

My replies here were aimed at the title of the tread on " Most over rated old timers "

Fripo wasn't a great fighter, but he could hit like a ton of bricks. Fripo caught Dempsey with a hard right to the chin in the first knockdown, and sort of pushed Dempsey out of the ring. Dempsey over came this, and floored a durable Fripo many times in route to a 2nd round TKO.

This is no different that Louis being caught by Galento, or Holmes getting caught with a bomb by Shavers, save the ring fall. Dempsey proved he could come back under a set of adverse circumstances.

 

I have to disagree here strongly. Dempsey kept his hands extremely low often and not just when out of range (product of the half bareknuckle style of those days). Tyson lacked in inside game, but was much better fundamentally. Dempsey's balance is also a lot less good than Tyson's who didn't nearly fall after a swing.

 

In addition to the good point Magoo made, Tyson has 40 lbs of muscle on Dempsey and most likely hit harder as well.