Most overrated old-timer?

Bivins is overrated, many consider him a true HOF worthy fighter, a 'near great' if you will. I consider him B level.

 

It was not your typical crouch, more of a half, bent-over hybrid off a sideways stance.

Jeffries used his fast feet to close the gap between himself and his rival; even in his bout with iron man, Tom Sharkey there is plenty of anticipatory and fencing like manoeuvres before they commit themselves, which was a trademark of the era.

You can be partial to a bit of hero worship with these superhero like 'oldies', but Ted Spoon relegates himself to applying the available material on these men into probable outcomes and theories -- Maybe Jeffries could tame a Great White, but that's another story that does not, or at least shouldn't, effect the fighter.

 

not in a head to head sense it isn't. and u said "some times" , not always

 

I'm not much of a Dempsey fan, but i would have him higher than you though. Probably borderline top10 just below Mikey.



On the Willard film.. if this was a modern fight (and by that i mean the 40's or later), it would've probably been stopped after the first or second knockdown and he'd have gotten a count instead of that ridiculous "punch the **** out of him when he's on more than one knee".

Personally i am much more thrilled by seeing what appears to be an indestructible, relentless, punching machine not giving great lightheavyweight Bob Foster and inch of space and knocking him out with a perfect double left hook. Interestingly, Ali took exactly the same double left hook in round 2 of his first fight with Frazier. Goes to show you the difference in durability between a LHW and a HW.

 

Ezzard Charles. I do rate him, but he's consistently rated too high as an all-time great "pound for pound" fighter IMO.

 

Who was the most over rated old-timer? There are many. One can still be great and over rated.

Pre 1960, here are my picks of over rated greats:

Heavy: Jack Johnson, Jersey Joe Walcott
Light heavy: Jimmy Bivins
Middle: Bobo Olsen, Stanley Ketchel
Welter: Emile Griffith
Light weight: Battling Nelson
Feather weight: Johnny Dundee
Bantam: George Dixon
Fly: Joseph Robert Loscalzo...AKA Midget Walgast

 

Jack Dempsey

 

Hopefully I can avoid a long Johnson thread. I've already stated my position that he's a bit chinny, doesn't throw many punches, and had a very poor title run as champion vs tier two opposition.

Nelson was a human punching bag who could wear a man out over man rounds. However, the lighter weights are more about skills and speed than durability. Nelson was lacking here.

Bivins was beaten by 18 different fighters. I picked Bivins at Light heavyweight. I don't think Bivins was great enough at middle to be over rated.

 

Nelson did not have big time power or skills. His game would be far less in a 15 or 12 round era.

W.W II took a lot away from fighters. Bivins to me was vunerable to many styles.

1 ) He lacked the power to keep the stronger fighters off him. Swamers ate him up.

2 ) He lacked the raw speed to out speed the speedsters, though he was pretty fast himself.

3 ) His chin was somewhat shaky chin and cost him vs punchers. Bivins was down a lot. Perhaps more than Charles.

Bivins was a good fighter, I just think he is an over rated hall of fame fighter.

 

I would say that Jeffries is one of the most under rated heavyweight champions.

Dont forgett that he was widley seen as the GOAT untill Joe Louis came allong. You dont get that kind of reputation without serious substence.

Bob Fitzsimmons is perhaps the most under rated heavyweight champion of all time. Today most people would rate him beneath Max Schmeling or Max Baer while in their day he was seen as a lock for a top 10 slot.

Personaly I think that young Jeffries with a dozen profesional fights to his name was being thrown to the wolves against Bob Fitzsimmons who was at the time the most dangerous fighter in the world.