Most overrated old-timer?

It is probably fair to say that Bivins was at one point the best heavyweight breathing apart from Louis on top of being the best light heavyweight.

That is not a B level fighter.

 

I can understand the criticisms of Dempsey based on his paper resume.

People at the time rated him because they knew that head to head he was a god. the more I learn about him the more chillingly true the acolades ring.

 

Jack Johnson is vastly over-rated. I would pick many modern day middleweights to defeat, if not KO, him.

 

You saw this for yourself on film or are you relying on eye witness reports ?.

Eye witness reports a 100 years old are not very reliable .

 

John L. Sullivan.:good

 

Dead wrong.

Many people myself included have entertained the idea that Sullivan was a glorified bar brawler and that Jim Corbett was the first reall heavyweight. It becomes aparent on closer analysis that he was a level above Corbett or Fitzsimmons at his peak and probably on a par with Jeffries.

 

Yes they are.

But if they all say the same thing you have to take notice.

 

you say "knew" asif it was a fact.

At any rate, his struggles with mediocrities like Firpo and or fights against better opposition like Sharkey and Tunney show that he was a demigod at best.

If a 168 pound fighter is the most dangerous fighter in the world (all weight classes), then i think you have your answer as to why he's seen as overrated. If that same fighter also takes a shitload of punishement against basically every opponent, then you have even more evidence for that.

In the day he may have been a lock for the top10, sure. But back then he didn't have an additional 70 years of great champions to compete with.

 

Eye witness reports from 100 years ago when it comes to boxing are not reliable because they make their judgement to different standards.

I've made the comparison before and i'll make it again: if you would read about one of the cars that Jack Johnson drove, you'll read that it was very fast, cool looking, had great agility and was the best in the world.
If you'd then read that the same car goes no faster than 50 km/h and is worse than a 1000 dollar car today performance-wise, then you will know how much an eyewitness account means.

They judge him in the knowledge that they have. Back then, combinations were rare. Jabbing was rare. Fighting tall and keeping your distance was rarely used. Glove blocked was rarely used. Wrestling and clinching was done all the time. All of that because gloved boxing was more or less bareknuckle boxing in a transition.

 

Not the second time. He was 27 and would only fight three more fights in total.

 

I'm curious as to why you would consider Dixon overrated at bantamweight, save for the fact that he didn't really stay in that division for very long.

 

Sure they would, even though the hardest punching middleweight ever got toyed like a child by him, huh?:yep

 

Could you give the name of a swarmer who ate him up, expecially in his prime.

The only punchers who stopped him were Lem Franklin, who had about 30 lbs on him, plus Charles and Moore (3 times). Bivins seems to have had trouble with men who were excellent boxers and had a big punch. I think most fighters have problems with anyone who fits that description.