Most popular with judges/immune to losing decisions: Saúl Álvarez, Danny García, or Jessie Vargas?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jan 3, 2018.


Canelo, or Swift...or Ruthless?

  1. Saúl Álvarez Barragán

    80.9%
  2. Daniel Óscar García

    13.2%
  3. Jessie Vargas

    5.9%
  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Also...can we just take a moment and pull together a round of applause (or better yet a standing ovation) for little boss-ass Lanardo Tyner????

    Mira, niños y niñas...

    This dude has been going hard for 13½ years, with a beastly opposition schedule. He faces house fighters on a regular basis, often taking assignments on short notice, and gives it his all every time. Until less a month ago he didn't have a single career stoppage defeat in nearly 50 bouts. And he's still trucking at 42 years old (due to compete again next month), doing yeoman's work and filling a necessary but thankless gatekeeper's niche, with class and no malingering.

    He arguably deserved a draw with a just-blossoming-into-prime Canelo and made Vargas work his ass off to earn a 99-91 that was far more competitive than boxing' ten-point-must system allows it to look on paper.

    :clap::clap::clap:

    I think homie deserves his own standalone thread, what say y'all?
     
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  2. Boxing Truth

    Boxing Truth Active Member banned Full Member

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    Thurman almost got KO'd by Collazo, but was forced to let Thurman win.
    Broner gets away with dirty fighting, and was being groomed to be the next Floyd, but it didn't work out.

    I forgot to mention, Miguel Cotto.
    Cotto cheated his way against Zab Judah, Ricardo Torres, with intentional low blows.
    Corley also almost KO'd Cotto, but reluctantly pulled back.

    But Floyd takes the cake, for getting the best decisions.
    Floyd lost to Castillo in the 1st fight but the judges gave it to Floyd.
    Floyd had fixed fights against Canelo, DelaHoya.
     
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    ...wish I'd just skipped to your last paragraph, would've saved me some time...
     
  4. just another guy

    just another guy New Member Full Member

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    That's what I'm saying,he always gets the benefit of the doubt(and yes even getting a draw against Golovkin represents getting the benefit of the doubt).
    I can accept this hapening but that does not mean its right.
    And him being undefeated would mean he would have had to get at least a draw vs Mayweather which would have been up for discussion for one of the worst decisions in history.They decided they couldnt go THAT far.
     
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  5. J Jones

    J Jones Well-Known Member Full Member

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    My apologies for hijacking the thread.

    Of the three fighters you mentioned, I think Canelo is the obvious choice based on his popularity and potential as a cash cow.

    As a part time PBC fighter, I believe Garcia’s popularity has peaked. There’s no need to protect his record anymore.

    Jessie Vargas is a laughable case. To put him in perspective, think about this. In the year 2018, the long retired Fernando Vargas is more popular/marketable than Jessie.
     
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  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Done.

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/lanardo-pain-server-tyner.599839/
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Yeah he's less popular and marketable than DSG or Canelo and yet, as the evidence shows, is just as much a beneficiary of judges' excessive favoritism on the cards. Why is anyone's guess.

    To be fair he isn't quite as boring as he developed a reputation for being (that was more the fault of his dance partners) - and yet he isn't a real action hero either despite a few entertaining fights (again those were more to do with his dance partners....he just fights up or down to his opposition's level).

    He's just kind of...blah. Yet he's in the same league as the other two in the poll (though you wouldn't guess it by the poll results here so far) in terms of being protected and getting bogus scores.
     
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  8. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    That Herrera gift pissed me off the most, here comes the guy that was pretty much brought in to lose and look good against and ends up pretty much schooling the guy in his "home town" only to have it taken away from him in such a shameless manner. I think even the PR fans were booing Garcia on that one.
     
  9. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

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    And what annoyed me as well is Garcia's attitude after robbing other guys, he acts so natural about it as if there's no doubt he won the fight. Man I didn't like Garcia AT ALL. So glad this guy lost his relevancy.
     
  10. J Jones

    J Jones Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You nailed Vargas’s problem on the head. If you’re a top shelf talent and top flight fighter, you should almost NEVER fight down to your level of competition.
     
  11. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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    Void was immune to losing a decision, even when he deserved to lose, such as Castillo, Oscar.....................he even got credit for fighting a non-boxer, Conor, who's record was 0-0-0!

    SOB Ward, it's impossible for him to lose a fight no matter what! He got knocked down, staggered by a jab and the damned criminals still gave a decision so SOB!

    Oscar will never allow the judges to vote against El Pollo.................watch and see, the rematch will have three judges, Byrd, Byrd and Byrd, and Toney Weeks as the referee so El Pollo can land low blows, then stop the fight after one lands, or whatever Oscar wants.............
     
  12. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Danny Garcia is the only one I think judges have it for. Herrera and Peterson schooled and beat up his ass. Lara beat Canelo, but other than that and the inconsequential Floyd draw score his disputed fights were all close calls that he deservedly nicked. I recall thinking it was fine that Vargas similarly got the win in probably all of his close ones, and IB in his breakdown didn't actually think he was robbed of a single win.
     
  13. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    I think Danny 'gift' Garcia just edges Alvarez in this. Danny got clearly beaten twice and got away with a win in both cases, but somehow the judges didn't extend that coursety against Thurman, which was relatively close, and people seem to forget about the Matthysse fight.
    Without the borderline KD, turning out to be a 3 point swing, he would have lost that fight on 2 of the judges' scorecards.

    Alvarez had a couple of close ones that went his way, and of course that draw.
    But he never got a win after being spanked.
    There clearly is something going on though with one or two far too wide to downright ridiculous scorecards in his favor in 6 of his last 10 fights alone.
    So maybe he's more invincible as Danny but never needed it as badly.

    Now take a look at contender turned gatekeeper Fernando Guerrero. That's at a lower level, but he must have a whole closet full of compromising pictures on judges going by the number of gifts he received. You just can't beat that guy on the cards without bouncing him off the canvas Quillin/Lemieux style. Otherwise they somehow score it in his favor.
     
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  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Thing is though, if you were paying close attention to my breakdown you would see that I very explicitly do in fact think Vargas has a robbery win. The nuance of that one is that I don't think it necessarily ought to be a loss, but the absolute BEST CASE SCENARIO for him versus Novikov is a draw. That's giving Vargas every consideration, every swing round. Hard limit: draw. Could easily be scored a win for Novikov by a range of a few points, but at the very least he was robbed of a draw. Clearly.

    Also, upon subsequent watches I have, despite originally having Vargas edging them on the night, scored a couple of Vargas' close wins as either draws or, in one case, a loss (changed my mind on one round versus Josesito, swinging it to a 1-point margin for him)

    The problem isn't that Vargas has a ton of (DSG vs. Peterson/Herrera style) wins that he definitely should have on his record as losses; that isn't the case. The problem is that he muddies the waters just enough to have all these close rounds and doesn't just edge his close fights, but on many judges' cards is given a wide, comfortable berth meaning the couple of (what should've been deciding) close rounds didn't even matter.
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Oh wow, forgot about Guerrero. (somehow, despite having it drilled in my head by all the boxing hipsters from a decade ago how it was his destiny to co-reign as p4p #1A/#1B with Yuriorkis Gamboa for years to come...)

    He did indeed receive gifts over:

    • Ishé Smith (very bad robbery; previously Smith had lost close but clear to Danny Jacobs but this was completely different, and made it readily apparent that Jacobs was like four levels above the previously more hyped Guerrero)
    • arguably Gabe Rosado, who dropped him.
    • definitely Ossie Duran, who dropped him.
    • arguably Ray Gatica, who dropped him.
    • arguably Abie Han, who dropped him.


    ...and neither the Derrick Findley nor Jose Medina matches were truthfully as one-sided as the verdicts reflect. I thought Findley nicked a round or two (unlike Teddy Atlas who did have it a shutout, as he was gaga for Guerrero in those days and wears his biases on his sleeve when scoring) and while I did have Guerrero shutting out Jose Medina there were several fiercely combated rounds.
     
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