Most shameless title defences of all time

Very inconsistent at the top level. Don’t care about the consistent record padding.

 

Well hindsight is all you and I have ,even we are not that old!

 

Floyd Patterson fighting Pete Rademacher making his pro debut in a title defense is laughable

 

AND he got dropped as well I think. Imagine if he’d lost. He’d be ranked below Leon Spinks and Marvin Hart amongst the Lineal champs.

 

Excellent post. It bears mention that a true ATG Champion can successfully repel challenges from and defeat all comers. Larry did. Ocasio would move down in weight and become the first CW Champion of consequence with multiple defenses, and he was robbed of handing Dokes his first defeat. I think this is a badly underrated defense for Holmes, as Jaws was as well prepared for defending against a great jab as any challenger could've been following 20 rounds with Young. Yet the Assassin pounded down an opponent who was very actively parrying and picking off that jab. Larry provided a textbook example of the power jab as an offensive weapon.

Leon was of course a former undisputed World Champion, and nobody disputed that he earned his shot at Holmes.

Weaver, Berbick and Smith were future HW Title claimants.

Cobb had a very strong case as the world's second best heavyweight at the time he challenged Larry. I had Holmes winning all 15 rounds against both Berbick and Cobb.

 

Ya Patterson is so overrated and by extension of building his reputation off of beating Patterson twice so is Liston

 

I feel that we have to factor in how things seemed at the time.

It is obvious to us in the 21st century, that Jack Johnson, Sam McVea, or even Sandy Ferguson woudl have made a much better challenger.

However it was not necessarily obvious at the time.

 

Well Munroe was a better challenger than Finnegan,how's that?

 

Feel free to list which opponent & how amongst Holmes’ title challengers would have any meaningful chance against prime Foreman. Then you can tell me which one is equal to 1974 Muhammad Ali.

 

I could, but I won't. Jimmy Young.

 

Holmes was an all-time great Heavy, at 6’3” with an 80+” reach. Beating up the guy who we have to look to Cruiser for a decent record is nothing to crow about.

Speaking of smaller Heavies who didn’t do much (legitimately), Spinks had one good fight in his life, vs Mercado. If you believe his fights with Ali are on the level, it provides a fascinating psychological insight into the power of celebrity, & the lengths the Human psyche will go to to rationalise even the most blatant contradictions in order to preserve an image.

Weaver, Berbick & Smith were future title claimants? None of these are poor defenses I have much against, but as far as partial claimants go, who wasn’t in the 1980’s?

Cobb speaks for itself, really. If anyone thinks Foreman couldn’t break Joe Louis’ record fighting Holmes’ competition they leave me stunned.

 

So instead, you gave me the name of a fighter who Holmes never fought. Probably a wise decision you didn’t, then

 

Ney, I have reservations about that. I don't believe Foreman had the power to hurt Cobb. Then, it comes down to physical strength. No question Tex had Championship Distance stamina, being time limit oriented. If he takes George's best shots to the head and body (as I have absolute confidence he would) then responds by coming forward behind that heavy jab (his best legal punch), then Foreman would be very, very fatigued as it went into double digit rounds, especially if he's forced to move his huge heavy body around Tex.

Bonecrusher had stamina, enough power to hurt George late, and opponents said he was was the physically strongest opponent they squared off against. In top condition, he was a lean 230 pounds. Peak Tyson couldn't do a thing with him. If he's strong enough to prevent George from shoving him off, then the clinching he used on Tyson is going to wear on Foreman severely, as George doesn't have the template to stay away from Bonecrusher as Holmes did.

Foreman was wide open defensively. He also said Lyle should've been banned for the punching power he carried. George is going to get punched by Earnie. If anybody can take Foreman out inside of five rounds, it's Shavers. And if Earnie does take George past round five, it's actually Shavers who was more accomplished in the later rounds, as he could pace himself, move, had a longer jab, and tenth round knockout power. Foreman should win, but he presents a huge, wide open target. If Lyle could have George in serious trouble, then what happens when Foreman gets nailed by the far harder punching Acorn?

Of the Ring's other top ten including Champion Foreman for the year 1973, Muhammad Ali defeated ALL of them, four of those contenders twice, and stopped eight of those nine times. From 1955 to 1981, there was at least one name in the annual Ring Heavyweight listings who Ali defeated. He's forever the GOAT for far too many reasons to count. George Foreman was barely years old when Archie Moore topped the list of HW contenders in 1955 and he was out of boxing at age 32 when Leon was a very rightfully earned seventh ranked heavyweight in 1981.

I see no way George is ever more than a transient champion during the 1970's. There's no evidence he withstands a Jimmy Young who could go the Championship Distance and shut out the far more skilled and experienced Ron Lyle twice.



Cooney dwarfed the Foreman sized Denis with his height and jab when they squared off, and George admitted Gerry's hook hurt him at the end of round one when they did fight. Foreman will get hit with that hook. Cooney couldn't clinch and didn't have a top shelf chin, but George was upright and there to be hit. Who connects first when they're young and active?

Styles. With Gil Clancy, Jerry Quarry had the counterpuncing template, punch resistance (Shavers), power and stamina (Lyle) to draw the single gear Foreman into the ropes and corners, then make George pay. He should've been Foreman's first challenger in 1974. Jerry's critics think this would've been an easy gimme stay active defense for George, yet unquestionably an extremely lucrative "easy" defense for Foreman. Could it be that George and his braintrust knew for a fact that JQ and Clancy had Foreman's number and that they all knew it?

Other "easy" defenses for George against top ten heavyweight contenders during his brief two defense reign include Bonavena, Bugner and the never floored 12 round veteran Henry Clark was hot in 1973 and 1974.


Foreman completely sucked as a champion. Frazier consolidated the heavyweight title in Ali's wake. From defeating Mathis in 1968 for NYSAC honors to getting dethroned by George, he generated ten consecutive championship wins against a variety of worthy and overmatched opponents. It's not his fault that a top shelf puncher wasn't included, but Mac Foster was eliminated by JQ. No question Frazier had vastly superior opposition climbing the ladder as well. Bonavena, Machen and Doug Jones were a solid consecutive trio. and he rematched the hardest of those. He also came back from Jamaica to war with Bugner in Bugner's greatest career performance.

 

You're not a serious poster ... my guess a rebooted troll who was banned here before. You avoid direct responses and try to pivot ..... a bore.

 

Foreman was unlucky as a champion, nothing more. He ran into an ageing fighter yes, but a deeply prepared one, & the consensus greatest Heavyweight ever. What I criticise Foreman for much, much more was his reaction to losing. That’s what really hurts him in my eyes. He should’ve done infinitely better, & his greatness on achievements is only rescued by his second career. How he could’ve been a longer lasting champ in the 1970’s is a separate issue, but specifically with Holmes’ timeline, you’re talking odds with guys like Cobb (how far did being tough get Chuvalo?), Smith (was he better than Lyle? Whom Foreman defeated with no confidence, a confused style, & 18 months of ring rust), Shavers (dusted inside one round by Quarry). These are fringe outside cases you’re stopping short of favouring, & for good reason.

Anything could happen, sure. That is not the question however. The fact is there just are very, very few ATG Heavyweight champions who wouldn’t have a similar or better run against Holmes’ competition. Foreman is hardly likely to be among them.