Most Skilled: Gavalin, Napoles, Rodriguez, Chocolate, Ramos, Rigondeaux, Casamayor, Legra or Paret?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Nov 22, 2019.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Literally just robbed @Flo_Raiden's thread concept. Who's the most skilled, or in what order you put this squad of Cuban greats?

    Kid Gavalin
    José Napoles
    Luis Rodriguez
    Kid Chocolate
    Sugar Ramos
    Guillermo Rigondeaux
    Joel Casamayor
    José Legra
    Benny Paret
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  2. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sadly I've only seen Gavilan, Napoles, and Rigondeaux. Will have to look at the rest, but I do have an interest in watching Rodriguez at some point. So far this is how I would rate the 3, despite my limited knowledge with everyone else:

    Napoles
    Gavilan
    Rigondeaux

    I do think Napoles and Gavilan are closer together in terms of skills, I just feel that Napoles was less flashy and the smoother operator. Rigondeaux is a clear third for me. I always found his overall skill set to be overrated despite being so good at what he did best. But he was always a one dimensional fighter IMO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Seriously hard to split here, except for Paret here. How do you define skill here?
    1. Napoles / Gavilan / Rodriguez (can't split them, but gun to my head Rodriguez is first)
    2. Chocolate / Ramos (again, hard to split, probably be Chocolate just in front)
    3. Rigondeaux (very skilled operator, but 1 dimensional, a bit fragile, and the least tested here. He has a very strong implementation of his game but would suffer stylistically).
    4. Paret (no shame here, the others are just a different level. He took some beatings too).
     
  4. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Jose Legra deserves a mention. I think he’s a better Cuban fighter than Paret, Rigondeaux, Ramos.

    It’s hard to separate the Mount Rushmore guys (Rodriguez, Napoles, Gavilan, Chocolate). I’d say Napoles was the greatest technically from an offense standpoint. I wouldn’t pick him to beat Rodriguez though. Rodriguez is an incredible all around fighter.
     
  5. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think you should also add Joel Casamayor to the list as well.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Added. I've never watched either though, hence why I didn't include them.
     
  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Of the original 7, I'd have the list looking like this

    1. Napoles
    2. Rodriguez
    3. Gavalin
    4. Rigo
    5. Chocolate
    6. Ramos
    7. Paret

    I'll do something detailed when I'm able and have seen the other two
     
  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    I think you'll definitely like Legra. A very unique, flowing style and great at baiting the opponent. And he wasn't adverse to trading either.

    Casamajor is also great to watch, but I always felt he wasted it a little bit, not as much as a Guzman though.
     
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  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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  10. Cobra33

    Cobra33 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Its funny that people put Napoles ahead of Rodriguez who did much more in his career.
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    It's funny how you think that matters
     
  12. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Tbf it does sort of matter. That's why I wouldn't put Rigondeaux high.
     
  13. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    If your reaching the heights that Napoles and Rodriguez reached, I don't think it matters at all.
     
  14. Cobra33

    Cobra33 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Luis performed at a higher level and beat better overall opposition on a regular basis.
    Yet NOBODY really mentions him. And Napoles is regarded higher. Why is that?
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    7. Benny Paret.
    No Shame here, he just isn't as good as the others, he took bad beatings in his prime that the others didn't, although I think it's arguable he faced top 3 competition.

    6. Sugar Ramos
    He was good, really good and was competitive with 2 certified ATGs in Saldivar and Ortiz, where he showed good balance, understanding of range and the ability to set up his punches.
    He was good, just not as good as the next few guys.

    5. Kid Chocolate
    I know this will raise a few eyebrows, and I imagine most will not agree with him below Rigondeaux.
    My reasoning is that whilst Chocolate on offence was a blend of Tyson and Robinson stylistically, I don't think that he was as good on offence as he was on the backfoot. He had better footwork moving laterally imo and could get caught to often coming forward.
    In short, what I'm saying is that whilst Chocolate was good at more things, I don't think that he's better at anyone thing than Rigo was as a slick counter puncher.

    4. Guillermo Rigondeaux
    Rigo in the amatuars was when he was at his best physically, he was quick as anything and could bang with either hand, upstairs and down. His feet were very close to as good as you can get and his timing was immaculate. He was a natural counter puncher, and clearly had issues with the idea of leading, making for a one sided, relatively boring fighter, but what he did well, he was unbelievable at.

    I make it sound like Rigo was perfect as a natural counter puncher. This is definitely not true, as he had immense trouble with southpaws and as he got older he became very very one dimensional, fighting for survival and looking for a huge punch to end the fight. He didn't have the best balance or complete mastery of his Philly shell style, so he could be knocked down with a timed shot. But at his best he was a wonder.

    3. Kid Gavalin
    He had a wonderful ring IQ, his best talent was imo timing the rounds so he could nick them, a tactic Bratton and later Leonard would adopt. Gavalin had great feet, he always seemed in range and well balanced to set up his punches, he was the epitome of a master technical brawler.
    He had an iron chin, the best on the list imo, and was a subtly slick fighter on the way in and could outfight the best of them. He had great accuracy and could continuously whip his left hook both upstairs and down in the same place. His third fight with Bratton shows his devastating he could be, even with a lack of power.
    He did have a tendency to whip his punches, and with them being arm punches this probably contributed to his lack of power imo.

    2. Luis Rodriguez
    My reasoning for José above Luis, is the exactly the same as my reasoning for Rigo above Choco, ones more versatile (and proven) but what the other did best, is better than what the other guy did imo.
    Rodriguez had brilliant feet, unbelievable ring IQ, generalship, understanding of range, defence and calculated offensive.

    Tbh he did everything well technically, and has to be in the running for one of the best pure boxers ever.
    It was a farce he didn't get the decision against Griffith in more of their fights.
    Very versatile fighter, being able to lead or force a lead, and can throw beautiful combinations, inside and out, upstairs and down. His best strength is definitely his footwork though, he set everything up with them.

    1. José Napoles
    The silkiest fighter of all time imo. Top 3 at merging offence and defence and owner of one of the greatest performances ever.
    His offence was smooth, and he could up the pressure and go all out with it.
    His feet were among the best and he could open people up with them and force them on the defensive, could throw every punch and had a deceptively hard punch. He was also adept at fighting from all ranges.

    Tbh I don't know what I can say that you don't all already know.
     
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