Most Skillful Heavyweights Of Last 20 Years?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by amar1234, Oct 13, 2010.


  1. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A very alert and astute shout. Larry was active within the specified 1990-2010 time frame, and it was his 1992 master class with Mercer that prompter Ray to admit, "I guess I'd better learn how to box!" It can be argued that there were better heavyweights during the last 20 years, but more skilled? Larry's accrued skills and know-how allowed him to successfully compete until he was 52. There are those who believe his rightful record within the last 20 years should have been 23-1-0. (Everybody agrees on the outcome of Holyfield-Holmes, but Larry's fights with McCall and Nielson were very close. Brian Nielson was a hometown SD.)

    In connection with Holmes and Mercer, I'd like to through out the name of a cutie who was also schooling Ray before a freak punch shattered his nose. Damiani was a superb amateur who first gained international notice by upsetting Stevenson and handed Mercer a boxing lesson for eight rounds. Damiani was retired in eight by McCall for his only other defeat, but outscored a still viable Page for his final win.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    One of the best jabs the division has ever seen, puts hard fast combos together, hooks off the jab better than any superheavy ever, understands and uses distance well. Throws laser straight right hand with elite power.
     
  3. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Wlad is up there regardless of size. He wouldn't be anywhere near as effective if he was smaller, but I don't think that would be due to any lack in boxing skill. He isn't much of a counter-puncher at all nor does he have any kind of an inside game, not including the clinching, but otherwise he is up there.

    Not counting former middleweights, it's probably Holyfield. Now he makes up for a lot with sheer determination, but he does have fine skills to go along with his mental toughness. Against smaller fighters he did display that he wasn't necessarily the most clever of boxers though.

    Heavyweights aren't that skilled overall, so the little guys, former middles and light heavies, make up the majority of the truly skilled boxers. The likes of Lewis and Wladimir are a rare breed.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't like Wlad at all as an in-fighter and for me, that exlcudes him. There is a world of difference, in my opinion, between being very good at what you do - mastering skills - and being very skilled - mastering all boxing skills. Chagaev is more skilled that Wlad Klitschko in my opinion.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He's got decent handspeed, that is true, but that is not a skill. He is accurate in the punches he throws, too, but he doesn't show enough punch variety to be labelled a truly skilled puncher for me. Really skilled punchers switch hit a right hook to the ribs at mid-range, add a straight left whilst stepping out and then throw a double jab whilst reclaiming the distance, that is a really skilled puncher.

    There aren't that many of those guys at HW, i'm saying this to illustrate a point - being exceptional at the punches you've mastered, and Wlad is, does not a skilled puncher make. He's not a tenchnician so much as a master of his express style. This is where comparisons to Lewis do indeed bare weight.
     
  6. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The thing about Wladimir though is that he would simply run out of stamina doing those things. He tried it out and realized what was best for him.
     
  7. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

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    Lennox
    Holyfeild
    Jones
    Bowe
    Old Foreman
    Moorer
    Golota
    Grant
    WALDO
    VITLAY
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    And that's the way it should be. He's affective doing what he does best and that's what he should stick to. But that doesn't change the fact that his skillset is incomplete, in terms of what he gives us in each fight. Therefore, I wouldn't desribe him as one of the most skilled fighters at his weigh tin the last twenty years.
     
  9. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I mentioned Holmes in connection with Mercer earlier, but during the 1990s, Larry's tool chest was more varied in some ways than it was during his peak. We didn't see him retreating into the corners to sucker opponents like that during his first career. Generally, he stayed in mid ring when younger.

    Neither did we see him do what he did to retire Paul Poirier in 1993. A single right uppercut to the body rippled completely through his torso from left to right, separating the New England Champion's rib cartilage, and inflicting a delayed knockdown. Poirier, who had recently been stopped by Tucker and Stewart, calls it the hardest single punch he ever took. It was a different way to win. Like Foreman, he was able to evolve and adapt.

    Post Moorer Foreman deserves some acknowledgment. His jab could be a good and accurate tool percentage wise, and he finally acquired the capacity to compete and win over the 12 round limit, at age 46.
     
  10. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There is a difference between beeing able to do something but choosing not to do so and not beeing able to do this at all.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    A fighter is the some of what he does; what he is capable of but does not do is irrelevant, never more so than when surmising his skill. Danny Williams could be the most skilled HW of the last twenty years in terms of what he was secretly capable of for all I know.
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The skillset pertinent to a 210 lb, 6-2 heavyweight is not the exactly same as those pertinent to (and advisable for) a 245 lb 6-6 heavy. You play to your advantages, not down your opponents disadvantages. For Wlad, this means using length, height and strength, which combined with his ridiculous handspeed (for a man his size) equals a hard combination to crack. It's not like he would do well to bob and weave his way under his opponents guard...
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nobody is asking him to bob and weave. This would be insane.



    I understand what you are saying, but in answer to the question most skilled he still can't be the right answer. He's amongst the most specialised, and he has perfected certain arts, but most skilled, no.
     
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What you're saying is that Wlad is skilled for a man his size, and I don't think anyone is disputing that. But there has been several HWs with a superior overall skillset since 1990 and therefore he's not among the most skillfull HWs of the last 20 years IMO. But he probably is one of the most skillful p4p during that period.
     
  15. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mike Tyson, he used perfect technique for his style

    and

    Evander Holyfield, great footwork, balance, jab, etc