Most Technically Perfect Boxers

This is all I really need to read to know of your limited knowledge of boxing...

There is such a move as turning counter-clockwise while stepping back with the right foot putting you into a hooking position and in a position to defend against a hook, or a southpaw left.

Plus, the evidence for your arguments is very selective. You dismiss empirical evidence but choose individual circumstances that fit a particular argument even though it may plainly contradict you elsewhere as others have repeatedly pointed out.

Fact is, more fighters have been more successful using classic boxing techniques honed through the decades than fighters using unorthodox methods.

Where unorthodox fighters have been successful, it was accompanied by other exceptional physical assets such as vastly superior handspeed, great punching power, a granite chin, exceptional legs, lightning reflexes, inhuman stamina, inferior competition, or more likely some combination of these attributes.

And there is absolutely no doubt that within the parameters of the physiology of the human body, there are efficient and inefficient ways to do things. This is true of all sports. Every move comes with a level of effectiveness weighed against its level of risk. For instance, the hardest punch I could throw would involve a running start, a short dip and jump with good rotation for leverage and the punch landing at the very instant my legs hit the floor. But of course, I would most likely get KO'd by a counter in this situation after missing rather widely.

I must compensate by punching from the spot with an unnoticeable pre-dip, a tight, fast rotation, and not involving my arm until the last moment so as not to telegraph the shot. The result is slightly diminished power, but far higher accuracy and a chance of hitting a target that doesn't have a chance to get set for the shot, thus making him more vulnerable and less able to time and counter.

On defense, while slipping a shot cleanly is the nicest looking thing you can do in a ring, it also raises the level of risk of getting hit cleanly. It is much safer, in the long run, to get inside and under punches with minimal movement while sliding in the same direction with the punch... all the while attempting to either parry the shot or stifle it with a block. Although not as clean looking as a clean slip, it absolutely minimizes the chances of getting hit solid while keeping you in a position to counter rather than leaning back or jumping out of the way which, apart from uselessly putting you out of range to throw your own counter, also involves heavier use of reflex calculation and muscle power.

That is why guys like Toney and McCallum can go on being competitive almost forever while guys like Zab and Hamed were always more likely to eventually get nailed by a clean shot or KO'd after getting old, tired or hurt. But, as with most things, boxers are not just one or the other... they all fall somewhere in between these two extremes.

 

That's all I really need to know about your knowledge of body mechanics.

Which book did you see such move in? Did you try doing that yourself, standing face first towards your opponent, then stepping back with your right foot, while at the same time turning your upper body counter-clockwise and at the same time getting low to make the opponent's counter fly over your head?

Factual proof consists of precedents or of lack of such. My evidence is relevant in that it shows the fighters you mentioned being troubled multiple times before they are too old, despite their supposed excellent technical skills. While with Jones, he only had troubles in one fight, and he worked them out in a matter of several rounds, adjusting to Griffin's style and being on his way to victory when the accident that caused DQ took place.
Plus, I can accuse you and many people here of doing what you just said - dismissing or ignoring multiple examples of Jones showing every classic skill from the book, and claiming him lacking such skills. Or ignoring him showing lots of skills in his late bouts (including this Saturday's fight). Or showing that a lot of great fighters were highly dependent on their natural qualities, athletism, etc, and when they got older and these qualities were dimnishing, they were having less and less success in the ring (as with many rules, there're some exception, but they are singular ones out of hundreds of great fighters there have been). Because classic technique is also dependent on natural qualities of a man, at least of average one, with average speed, power, etc, and when fighters get older they usually drop below average on these qualities, and so they are a little too late in reacting to their opponents' actions, so that the things that were used to doing stop working, and it's too late and too difficult to change their style to adjust to these changes for most fighters.

Fact is Jones wasn't just "another guy with unorthodox moves", he stands out even among these guys. And the fact is his unorthodox moves baffled most classic technicians, making their style ineffective, and his basically as effective as usual. But some people keep claiming his style was bad and he should have chosen more classic one and would be more successful with it, whereas nothing suggests he would be more successful that way, on the contrary history shows he'd hardly be as dominant if he chose to do things traditionally.

Where traditional fighters have achieved above average success in the ring, it was accompanied by other exceptional physical assets such as everything you said above. What happened with SRR when he slowed down (hands, feet, reflexes) and was fighting at higher weight where his punching power wasn't as frightening as it had been at 140-147? What happened with Benny Leonard, when he came back to the ring with diminished speed and footwork? What happened to Ezzard Charles as he got older? Etc, etc. Many people keep saying 'Jones was so good only because of his athletism and got worse as he slowed down', but the thing is the same can be said about pretty much every other fighter, they all depended on their physical assets.

If you watched plenty of fights from 1st half of 20th century, you'd see them doing many things Roy does, and getting away with it without much problem.

Had you paid more attention to Jones' last fights, that's exactly what he's doing a lot of time. He still uses his tricks here and there, to showboat his invulnerability, but the tide has shifted considerably toward him using more classic moves more time than he had been doing before. Because of his legs (he stands flat-footed 90% of time), he's no longer able to do many fancy things he had been used to doing (or at least he does them with much lower frequency than before), and so he uses unorthodox things less and less, as he's staying at mid to close range now, whereas when he was younger, it was mostly long to mid range where he had stayed.

 

I just don't know what your logic is like. Cause you speak about Roy's insufficient technique, but claim to add Ali as one of the best technical fighters. I already said that it was an open list.
If I would use your logic on Roy's performance I could totally dismantle Ali's.

 

If Roger Mayweather was able to wobble Whitaker then Floyd would give him more than fits.

 

What similarities do uncle and nephew share other than idiocy to make you think that one can do what the other did?

 

delete

 

I never added Ali as one of the best technical fighters. You missed the point. Ali was not a technician. Jones was not a technician. In your original post, you listed Jones as technically perfect. I asked you why you didn't include Ali, since he relied on athleticism as much as Jones. If you listed Jones, I wanted to know why you didn't list Ali.

Neither were technicians. I hope you can acknowledge that now. That doesn't detract from their effectiveness -in fact, it is further indication of how much natural talent they had.

 

Nice try to jump off the bandwagon now.

If RJJ or Ali were no technicians then SRR or SRL were no technicians too?

 

No response, sweet_scientist?
Then there's one of some possible answers for your question: They made more $$$ with a few fights than you'll ever own in your whole life.

 

Good point, by that reasoning, Floyd works Pea for sure :good

 

Gentleman Jim Corbett comes to mind and I think deserves a mention. Although I haven't seen any footage of him (is there any?) he sounds like a real technician.

 

Has that learning disability been diagnosed yet?

Ummm, no. Leonard and Robinson utilized the fundamentals far more -both combined skill with natural talent.

KTFO, perhaps you should consider changing the acronym to GTFO (as in "Get The F*ck Out" of the classic section and go back to the general forum).

 

Its not rocket science how a technically supreme fighter goes about his business. Watch Bernard Hopkins performance against Felix Trinidad, and Juan Manuel Marquez's style. Thats what comes under fundamentally sound, and technically perfect.

Any fighter who's unorthodox, like keeping their hands low, and throwing punches from strange angles are eliminated without hesitation. Ali, Leonard, Jones jr, Hamed. But you could say they are technically very good for being unorthodox stylewise. Carlos Maussa and Ricardo Mayorga are what you would call technically poor unorthodox fighters.

 

Like how Hamed baffled MAB... like how Herol Graham baffled McCallum... like how Nunn befuddled Toney... just like how Mayorga completely bamboozled Spinks... and I suppose like how Chris Byrd flabbergasted Ibeabuchi...???

But I guess you will come back with your own self-serving examples even though these few already refute your "unorthodox moves baffle most classic technicians" dogma...

It was Jones' vastly superior SPEED of hand and foot that perplexed his opponents. If Jones had not been so fast of hand and foot, would you not agree that he could have been hit whilst performing many of those unorthodox moves?

And as you say, he is now using more classic moves now out of necessity... so how can you still say it was the unorthodox moves of yore that made him superior if he now has to ditch them?

Why would he have to resort to using such primitive classic moves now that his speed is diminishing, when we are told that his unorthodoxy was his brilliance?

You are a brilliant study in contradiction, my man...

 

Senya has been trashed in this thread.

No change there then.