Most Technically Perfect Boxers

Hopkins was more orthodox than Jones. He would throw a combination, then have his guard back in position to defend himself. Probably the main reason why Jones eventually got found out, and ended up on the canvas against Tarver and Johnson. His hands were down too often throughout his career to come under the "technically sound" bracket. As you stated, Jones relied on reflexes and feinting when defending at his peak. And when past his peak, it was disaster.

As I stated in my earlier post on this thread, Hopkins and Juan Manuel Marquez get my vote for being the best in the game today.

 

Agreed. Marquez is very well-schooled. His fight with Barrera was a purist's dream fight, and it is good to see that boxing can still produce such high-caliber mechanics today.

 

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Here's one more:

Ivan Calderon.

The word "Sweet Science" was designed for this kid..And many like him of course....Ali,Jofre,Lopez etc...The only thing he does'nt have is power.But balance,poise,combination punching,angles..The kid has it all.Some people say he's boring...But i say,he's the truth..Too bad he's a straweight.Cause I'd have loved to see Floyd potshot this kid.He'd have hit nothing but air,to be countered silly..

Love this thread.

 

I'm with you. Calderon is a good choice.

 

I'll just make one comment in some very decent debate if i may.

Roy is a bit unlucky here in that he didn't or now doesn't (whether his chin declined i know not, debate either way is possible) have the ability to take a punch and recuperative abilities of a fellow athlete like Ali. When Ali, whose defense relied quite a bit on reflex like Jones, declined he could take the extra punches that went with the aging process where as Jones couldn't, for whatever reason. This makes the Jones stoppages vs Tarver and Johnson very ugly, and a point doubters of Jones can zero in on and debate from. If he retained his chin, or had a better one (again, depending on personal opinion) these fights would have ended up quite different. Personally, as i've debated before, i think he was a bit past it and went out the way of stoppage where others have gone out via decision.

Your comments are totally fair that Jones was always going to get hit plenty more in his decline that a Hopkins, Toney and co. If memory serves me right even Benitez started to get caught late in his career.

 

Gene Tunney was tecnically perfect.

 

Agreed. Jones was well into his mid 30's when KO'd by Tarver and Johnson. Judging his chin during the prime years can't be done to a certain extent, as he never took many clean hand grenades at all.

Certainly not the kind which Tarver and Johnson landed on him, as they had KO written all over them, serious consequences or not from the effects. If he was upright after similar bombs landed on his chin during the mid-late 90's, then obviously a case can be made. Griffin timed his shots beautifully, crouching low, then firing overhand rights. It was the key punch for Griffin. But not quite "Jones should have been down, how did he stay on his feet".

Futch sure had Jones studied under the magnifying glass. Griffin was the man who gaves Jones the most trouble, up until Jones shared a ring with Tarver for the first time. Thats my opinion anyway.

Father time caught up with Jones punch resistance. Although the evidence we have during his prime ain't exactly what we would like.

 

Exactly. Age, his unbelievable ability to dodge punches at his peak, and his weight forays make it very difficult to assess the Jones whiskers. Pro Jones will say it was excellent in his peak whilst detractors will say it was always glass and just wasn't tested. I sit in the middle, i don't think it was ever glass, but it would be interesting if a Hearn's, Hagler, Monzon, Spinks or Qawi put some heat on.

Good point about Griffin actually, Jones did ok there. Am i alone in thinking the two punches that took him out were certainly no harder than claimed? From memory Tarver caught him blind but i really think plenty of fighters would have taken these blows.

Griffin was close to the only guy that gave Jones trouble actually.

Fair call. Father time and weight fluctuations maybe.

 

charlie zelenoff is the only perfect fighter i have ever come across

 

Yes, the problem is a basic one. After I have proven all your claims about Jones committing technical mistakes in that exact situation false (using multiple replays from different angles), you are coming up with nothing but irrelevant points.

 

I can't see where we disagree. If Jones had a granite chin and dropped a couple of decisions, or even won the Tarver and Johnson bouts, I would retain my critique of his mechanics. In fact, during his prime, I recognized his superior talent as well as his deficiencies with fundamentals.

Ali and Jones are at the pinnacle of that style of fighting. But, that style has a cost. The unfortunate amount of punishment that Ali took was at great cost to his health. Jones's KOs have had a serious effect on the legend that he was building. Both came crashing down to earth -Ali used to mock punch-drunk fighters during his prime. He became one of them. Jones had his army of Senya-types who claimed that he was greater than the Fab Four and Robinson himself. And then their hopes were dashed.

I believe that the casual treatment both fighters gave to the fundamentals was a primary cause of their fall. There are many who seem to dismiss technical prowess or confuse it with superior athleticism. I consider it a bastion of the great fighter -along with other things like heart/will and athleticism.

Jones was a phenomenon. Head to head I think he would have had problems with bombers like Hearns because his chin was without a doubt suspect in my mind (and that, as well as his lack of real challengers, place him far below Ali). However, he would have given the vast majority of greats in 3 divisions pure hell.

There are too many who think that he was the second-coming... understandable I guess... after all, power and speed are so much more alluring than subtlety. Hell, action films make far more money than films that rely on character development.

 

You were given the opportunity to answer a simple question and redeem yourself. Instead you choose to wave it off. In other words, you run and hide as you have been inclined to do when cornered. That is unfortunate.

Senya makes opinions that range from average to dubious to confusing and then inflates them because no one else recognizes their genious.

His imperviousness to alternative viewpoints and his immunity to reason and objectivity have condemned him to the fringes of thoughtful discourse. The moderators should create a new forum where such members can feel free to engage in their pseudo-intellectual exercises of masturbation. Call it the "island of misfit toys".

 

Not a single word on false points that he claimed in the first place. If you were a real man, you'd have admitted you made a mistake when claimed something from memory without properly rewatching the video.

 

Oh dear, a dunce is questioning my masculity. Should I be angry or amused?

I disagree with you and told you why already -ad nauseum. I believe, as do many others, that Roy was a superior athlete but not much of a technician. He was casual with fundamentals. When I watch Tarver's KO of Jones I see basic mistakes that Jones made. You see a miracle.

Answer the question I posed to you several posts ago.