Most underrated boxer in each weight class...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by the_bigunit, Dec 3, 2013.


  1. the_bigunit

    the_bigunit Well-Known Member Full Member

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  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I'll give this a shot...

    HW - tough. You had Mike Perez until recently, but now everybody knows him and there has been a lot of bandwagon jumping after his first real mass exposure and the extra attention the unfortunate aftermath of the Abdusallamov match received. He may no longer qualify. Then you have Bryant Jennings, over whom many have an inexplicably doom-and-gloom attitude (akin to Wilder's, except Jennings fights better competition and doesn't have that same kind of glaring elephant-in-the-room flaw...). Artur Szpilka, yes, we all know about the imperfect chin, but he is a viable contender in this current HW climate and people overlook that. Kubrat Pulev has a case for being simultaneously the most underrated and the most overrated, by the extremist factions on either end of the spectrum. Malik Scott got written off after the Chisora loss although he was doing well and the circumstances around it were...unique, to say the least...and people forget he should've gotten the nod over the very good Vyacheslav Glazkov before that in their draw. I'm going to cop out as these guys are too difficult to separate in terms of how much they're underrated (and by whom).

    CW - Firat Arslan, easily. I remember seeing comments on message boards years ago regarding him being a washed-up never-was after being deposed by Guillermo Jones despite having been on an excellent run of wins from his eliminator over Drozd through his 2nd defense over Wilson. Since returning from retirement Arslan has shown superb form but suffered from crap luck. His comeback got off to a disappointing start when he nearly fell unconscious from dehydration and had to retire while still very much in the contest with Herelius. He then avenged an old loss to Suda in dominant fashion, and subsequently outfought contender Alexeev and titlist Huck but was a victim of robberies in both the draw and the loss respectively. On sheer longevity, for Arslan to have fought at the top level so competitively for so long and at such an advanced age on sheer determination and hard work despite not having great physical gifts like athleticism or power merits respect - yet you almost never hear his name. If you do, it's usually to disparage someone, ie "Drozd got stopped by Arslan, isn't that embarrassing..." or "Huck is a joke of a titlist to have needed a gift decision over ancient feather-fist Arslan" or the like. He deserves a lot more respect. Struggling with or losing outright to Arslan is no badge of dishonor.

    LHW - Jürgen Brähmer. Another case of longevity and consistency overlooked. While the upper echelon of the 168lb and 175lb divisions have been like a geologist's wet dream of constantly and sometimes rapidly shifting topography - Brähmer has remained steady as bedrock. He only has one decisive and clear defeat (to forgotten-about Garay at the height of his prowess) and it was highly competitive. He avenged his other loss (an MD in the first place) by TKO, and has left several decent prospect/contenders in his wake the last few years. Never spoken of.

    SMW - Sakio Bika. I personally don't like the guy (ever since the Mendy incident) but you have to respect him. Think for a moment about how long Bika has been giving all sorts of problems to ranked fighters including current, future and past champions. He was thrown in while green as grass, under 2 years as pro, with the more experienced Soliman and only took a MD loss. He was mauling Beyer before Beyer lucked out with the cut. He caused Ward, Bute, and Calzaghe headaches while dispatching a slew of contenders in between those challenges. Finally, after toiling away for years in the pit of "Diehards' picks for the h2h best fighters to not be world titlists for whatever reason..." he is one...and still notably absent from most discussions regarding the supposedly red-hot division. His upcoming first defense pits the Scorpion against another avoided guy, a hungry young talent in a 50-50 match-up...yet finding a thread on this is like searching for a needle in the haystack of "Froch vs. Chavez, hooray! :nut" and "Ward should have stopped Rodriguez, what a bum! :bart" type crap. Hell, even Stieglitz gets more ink than Bika - and while I like Stieglitz he is a weaker champ, would lose to Bika, and what he did in the Abraham rematch is nothing Bika couldn't have done in his place.
     
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I'll do some more in a bit, probably the same as above, a few divisions at once.
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    MW - toss-up between Marco Antonio Rubio and Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam. Both have shown epic heart, Rubio in the way he keeps dusting himself off and climbing back up the ladder after repeated setbacks - often in a violent and entertaining manner. He takes stick for losing to Chavez, and while Chavez admittedly is no great shakes he was basically a cruiserweight in the ring after rehydrating that night. Otherwise the Venomous one hasn't posted a loss since meeting prime Kelly Pavlik back in '09, and before that young unbeaten Baysangurov in '06. Not all the opposition has been stellar, but Rubio has been racking up scalps of varying degrees of 'good' like Zertuche x2, Randall, Ornelas, Brewer, Vanderpool, Rigo Alvarez, Kodzoev, Cota, Candelo, Lemieux, Vaca, Baldomir, D. Miranda etc for a long time now - most of those by KO. As for HNN, in his loss to Quillin he proved to have maybe the biggest cojones in the middleweight division and in the running for biggest in boxing when he rose like a phoenix after visiting the canvas several times with a never say die attitude. He is still young enough to rebound from the loss and was on many informed observers' shortlist of the most talented middleweight gems that nobody in the mainstream knew about, prior to making his American TV debut. His smattering of WBA and WBO interim world title victories were nothing to write a book about, but he is a genuine player at 160lbs - like Rubio, a wild card to maybe end up with a belt around his waist in the next year or so depending on how things shake out with current holders retiring and/or moving up in weight - and hardly a peep has been spoken of him in thirteen months now.

    JMW - Carlos Molina. Still underrated after all these years, even after having become champion. I've seen people tipping Victor Ortiz to move up and claim his belt - easily, at that! His accomplishment is downplayed and given no credit because he only beat the lowly Smith who in turn had beaten the extremely limited K-9 - but if you look at what Molina has done (and if you could wave a magic wand to correct some wonky officiating and give him W's over Lara, Alvarado, Kirkland, and Chavez x2) the accomplishment is only the icing on the cake. Molina has been a top light middle for years and yet never given the credit except by a few, and most of even those few with reluctant distaste. Close runner-up: Javier Maciel, who should currently be up for a title shot but got screwed by some very bad judging in favor of Brian Rose. For a long time after the Pirog loss nobody would listen to me that Maciel was vastly improved dropping back down to 154 and potentially a serious force to be reckoned with...and even now, after some initial outrage following the Rose decision, it has quieted down and his name is receding to a faint whisper.

    WW - Hard call. For a long time it was probably Jesus Soto Karass but he is starting to gain some recognition for being a tough out for anybody in the division after some high profile appearances. Luis Carlos Abregu is up there. Ultimately, though, I have to go with Leo Bundu. Who, you may ask? He is the European champ, and has put together one heck of a run in his reign in his late thirties. If he beats Lee Purdy - and he just might - then he is officially the best welter nobody talks about.

    LWW - Khabib Allakhverdiev, easily. Logging about half a dozen marvelous performances, staying perfect against increasingly good opponents and snapping Guzman's unbeaten streak - all of this has earned him approximately... zero respect or attention from casual fans. He is stuck in the "Who Needs 'Em" club and probably won't get that attention so long as he keeps getting ducked by the second-tier guys who in turn will open the door for him to develop a bit of star power and set up possible unification with the first-tier guys.
     
  5. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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  6. The Peasant

    The Peasant Crops Full Member

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    HW- Luis Ortiz

    A fine amateur- he's big, skilled & motivated. A lot of people are discrediting him on the basis of weak opposition, which is reasonable. But he has the abilities to beat any HW.
     
  7. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :deal
     
  8. the_bigunit

    the_bigunit Well-Known Member Full Member

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  9. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    Heavyweight: Malik Scott
    Cruiserweight: Grigory Drozd
    Light Heavyweight: Zsolt Erdei
    Super Middleweight: Brandon Gonzalez
    Middleweight: Gabriel Rosado
    Light Middleweight: Carlos Molina
    Welterweight: Luis Carlos Abregu
    Junior Welterweight: Khabib Allakhverdiev
    Lightweight: Richar Abril
    Jr Lightweight: Takashi Uchiyama (people should be screaming from the rooftops for a unification with Mikey Garcia like they are Kovalev-Stevenson, but some ignoramuses have never heard of him)
    Featherweight: Akifumi Shimoda
    Jr Featherweight: Daniel Rosas
    Bantamweight: Suriyan Sor Rungvisai
    Jr Bantamweight: Tepparith Kokietgym
    Flyweight: Edgar Sosa
    Jr Flyweight: Moises Fuentes
    Strawweight: Carlos Buitrago
     
  10. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    Change Sosa to Moruti Mthalane at Flyweight if he hasn't retired.
     
  11. MannySteward

    MannySteward Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Damn IB, you killed it. Amazing posts.
     
  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    LW - Denis Shafikov. Some probably think it's Terence Crawford, but trust me - he is only the 2nd most underrated lightweight...and growing less underrated by the day. In fact, he was underrated before he appeared on HBO and no longer fits the strict definition of the word (and is actually courting the antonym) considering many are proclaiming him the next big thing and bound to clean out the division and several above it. I am not saying Crawford is undeserving of some hype as he is obviously, to borrow a baseball analysts' and scouts' phrase, a 'five-tool player' (in the boxing sense, meaning that he possesses Speed, Power, Chin, Educated Hands, and Defense) - but having caught his more obscure televised appearances, there are serious latent flaws that simply haven't reared up in the Prescott/Sanabria/Klimov showcases by which most were introduced to him. It very well could be the case that he is a dominant champion for years to come, but if he were derailed before getting there it wouldn't come as too great a shock to me. Shafikov, meanwhile, is by my estimation already that complete package that people are hoping Crawford will develop into...and here's the real bombshell: I would pick him with utmost confidence head to head over Crawford. Absolutely phenomenal talent...but not appearing on HBO, Showtime, BoxNation or Sky means that neither Americans nor Brits will be apt to have caught wind of him. (the latter may remember him thrashing McAllister, if anything - but with how quickly that cannibalistic fan base can sometimes turn on its beloved and with some of the negative comments directed toward McAllister on British forums since his decline, his being savaged by Shafikov might not have left too indelible an impression). Give him three consecutive HBO dates opposite that same exact trio and Shafikov would either match or outperform Crawford. Real talk.

    SFW - Juan Carlos Burgos. This poor mother****er. :-( The man nicknamed "MiniBurgos" (meant to distinguish him from his uncle Victor Burgos, but humorously ironic considering Victor campaigned from straw through fly while Burgos debuted at feather and never fought below 124lbs) was already turning heads for some of us as far back as 2009/2010 showing off his diesel engine in gritty learning experiences taking on a variety of styles like the float-like-a-butterfly-jab-like-a-mosquito Slava Gusev and the extremely tough and ever-ready-to-spring-an-upset Juan Carlos Martinez, among the best journeymen in Mexico. As expected, he positioned himself for a title shot but ran afoul of Hozumi Hasegawa. The former bantamweight champ was moving up two classes and presumed to have been damaged goods after being KTFO by Montiel. Everybody thought wrong. Hasegawa came back perhaps even stronger than during the peak of his 118lb reign. Burgos was clearly defeated in a tough battle, although not outclassed, and was only 22. More opportunities were sure to come...and did. He put together a nice run, got ranked once more, and challenged Rocky Martinez. He then dominated Martinez (final stat line: http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=14607209#post14607209) but fell victim to Martinez's same 'guardian angel' that came to his rescue in his previous WBO title clash with Beltran and would come again in his next defense over Magdaleno. Burgos had to settle for a draw, outrageously...despite having done everything needed to become a champion. Disparaged, he jumped up to lightweight and took on durable Ghanaian volume puncher Yakubu Amidu. Burgos was the better man in spite of a valiant effort by Amidu on short notice, surprised by Amidu's own formidable work rate but able to match it and hurt Amidu several times, and once more received a split draw for his troubles. Commentators and fans had it close but clear for Burgos or at the very worst a draw, so Michael Tate's 116-112 score for Amidu was hardly grounded in reality. Burgos' future plans are uncertain, but if he returns to 130lbs and can do so comfortably he is right in the mix and perhaps the biggest threat out there for Garcia and Uchiyama besides each other. Such match-ups are rarely brought up, however - nor are ones involving him at lightweight. He sort of slipped into the cracks and became unglued from the continuum, a man without a division for now.

    FW - Robinson Castellanos. What a goddamn Cinderella story. This guy as of three years ago today had gotten off to a horrendous start. He was 8-9 in his career and kayoed four times, all without having left Mexico. Then, quietly, he began a remarkable ascent beginning with an upset of 19-0 Christopher Perez. Next he proved to be no fluke by dethroning Alberto Garza with a knockout while down on the cards. Garza has a fairly decent resume and was the WBC Silver Champ. Castellanos has been defending the silver title ever since, meaning all his opponents have been rated at least top 15 by the WBC as of when he fought them - with the feather in his cap being a massive upset of Celestino Caballero this April, a split decision that saw Castellanos drop the Panamanian former p4p list occupant in the 1st. Talk about zero to hero. Honorable mention for "most underrated featherweight" goes to longtime world titlist Chris John, but there are enough John defenders (some of whom go overboard in their claims of greatness) that it somewhat balances out the negative comments.

    SBW - Cristian Mijares. Nobody gave him any chance to ever become relevant again, when Darchinyan knocked him out. That was five years ago. Since then he is undefeated, but for some judging disasters. Immediately on the heels of his knockout loss he went 24 rounds with Nehomar Cermeno, another technician with an unpopular style, and was unfairly deemed the loser twice on his own home soil. You'd be hard-pressed to find a non-Venezuelan defending either of those decisions. Undaunted by now three losses in a row, Mijares plugged away while continuing to climb up in weight and embarking on a 10-0 (6) streak before knocking out Rafael Marquez after nine rounds of war. Not bad for someone long considered a light hitter down at super flyweight. Then came the ultimate reward - the vacant WBC super bantamweight title dangled in his face with only Victor Terrazas in his way. They engaged in a great fight, which Mijares clearly won. Except, officially, he did not. Terrazas would immediately hot-potato the belt in a big-money cash-out with Leo Santa Cruz. That should have been Mijares' cash-out. He would probably have suffered the same fate as Terrazas, but the point is that he should rightfully have been the one to briefly hold the belt and to get that payday that came with the beating from LSC. He more than earned it.
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    This is a good list. All those are easily defensible.
     
  14. kevinreid001

    kevinreid001 Punchdrunk101 Full Member

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    denis shafikov i remember seein him beat mcalister with ease thot would see more of him tbh looked very gd fighter
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    BW - Randy Caballero. He is still a work in progress but Golden Boy Promotions have a lot of belief in this prospect, as do I. They are neither rushing him too fast nor mollycoddling him, towing the middle line and giving him harder and harder tests to see how he does. So far, flying colors. His body punching is really finely honed at this point and his recent mid-card televised rout of the game Jessy Cruz should be a springboard to more visibility and perhaps some top 15-20 bantams in the near future. He is probably already the best talent at the weight under the age of 25 besides Tomoki Kameda, who due to his famous last name has never been out of the limelight and can't properly be called underrated when just about everybody who follows the lighter divisions rates him and considers him the best Kameda.

    SFlW - McJoe Arroyo. Long overshadowed by his twin brother McWilliams due the latter's even more successful amateur career (in much the same way that Jesse Magdaleno has been overshadowed by elder brother Diego for the same reason) - and that epic 4-round FOTY candidate McWilliams had with Takashi Okada early on didn't hurt - McJoe could actually be the real blue chip. The brothers are headlining yet another low-rent PPV in their native Puerto Rico this weekend, and both are taking huge steps up in class. Should he get by Aquino in this "somebody's 0 must go" match-up perhaps McJoe can step out from the shadows assuming he and McWilliams can land a date on regular TV since the cheap-O PPV route is doing them no favors outside their already established PR fanbase.

    FlW - Giovani Segura. This little monster is 6-2 (6) in world title bouts. All three of his losses were to present or future champions, one a p4p star and the most recent very much in the running for 2013's Fighter of the Year. Even with that loss to Sosa in May, the Aztec Warrior is having a fantastic year with his pounding and deflowering of the highly touted Jonathan "Bomba" Gonzalez and his subsequent triumph in the FOTY with Hernan Marquez. He is perhaps the best flyweight currently without a belt and on any given night would have a huge puncher's chance against each and every belt holder...and that includes the iron-chinned and never-stopped pair of Estrada and Yaegashi. Often dismissed as "the Lil Margarito" or a crude slugger any boxer should handle with ease, Segura has debunked such notions repeatedly over the years. He is a pressure machine, and dangerous to anyone in the fly range.

    JFlW - Moises Fuentes. This guy's resume over the last couple of years, even including his draw and SD loss (both very close), is outstanding. He is always in explosive and exciting matches, and despite facing half a dozen world caliber opponents has never been convincingly bested. He is rumored to have a rematch with Nietes in the works for March, a 50-50 proposition, and should it go his way he becomes a 2-division WBO champion - with virtually no shine outside Mexico and the Philippines. Another victim of having not been televised on a major American/British/European outlet and thereby getting largely ignored.

    SW - Ali Raymi. :banana No, seriously, Carlos Buitrago. This is the heir apparent to Roman Gonzalez (sharing a similar ring name, and both are protégés of the late great Arguello) as Nicaragua's best pound for pound boxer and is set to follow the same path by collecting titles from straw up throughout his twenties. He should have begun last week as he went into Merlito Sabillo's backyard and inflicted his technical superiority on the aggressive Filipino in a beautiful display that didn't get justly rewarded as Sabillo was allowed to preserve his zero and the WBO title with a draw. The fact that many picked Sabillo to retain (which he technically did, but even fans in the Philippines were Tweeting how unfair the decision was on the day) legitimately speaks to how little the word of mouth has spread regarding Carlos as compared to Roman at this same age. Respectable posters on here were claiming to have seen footage of both and still tipped Sabillo. Anyone having a deep familiarity with both, I would hope, would have recognized that Buitrago would prove to have vastly greater fundamentals and overall ability. Hopefully there is a rematch and Chocorroncito is able to begin to blaze his own trail behind Chocolatito - himself still rather unknown and underrated even many of by those familiar with him despite many purists looking at him as having the most potential to achieve greatness of anyone currently active in the entire sport.