Most varied heavyweight title defenses

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023.


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  1. Sailor Joe

    Sailor Joe Member Full Member

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    How much weight do you put into the variety of opponents beaten in a title run?

    I started thinking about this in regards to the debate over who is the #1 heavyweight, Ali or Louis.

    Usually, I see the argument for Ali being that his opponents are viewed as being better.

    However, one thing that I find interesting about Louis's opposition is the extreme variety. Small and fast guys like Conn, Walcott and Schmelling. Massive guys like Carnera, B. Baer and Simon. Oddball, slugging power punchers like Galento and M. Baer.

    Ali definitely did have variety in boxing style, but it seems like his opposition mostly fell into a more similar size and frame (200 - 220ish).

    Thoughts?
     
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
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  2. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well Ali beat smaller fast guys like.....

    Floyd Patterson
    Jimmy Ellis = Started his career as a Middleweight

    Ali beat big guys like.....

    Joe Bugner 6'4
    Ernie Terrell 6'6
    Chuck Wepner 6'5

    Ali beat slugging power punches like....

    Joe Frazier
     
    Dynamicpuncher, Jul 18, 2023
    Dynamicpuncher, Jul 18, 2023
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I do place a weighting on a champion proving themselves against different styles amd sized of fighter.
     
    janitor, Jul 18, 2023
    janitor, Jul 18, 2023
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Lennox Lewis fought a pretty disparate assortment.
     
    mcvey, Jul 18, 2023
    mcvey, Jul 18, 2023
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  5. Sailor Joe

    Sailor Joe Member Full Member

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    Thanks for the response.
    Fair points for each category. Patterson and Ellis seem comparable to Louis's smaller opponents.

    The bigger opponents were taller than Ali by a bit, but unless I'm mistaken were all around 220 or less in their primes. Joe looked more significantly smaller than some of his biggest opponents.

    For Frazier, he was a great power puncher. He was also certainly more skilled than Baer or Galento, but I would consider them more awkward fighters, which can also be a unique challenge.

    In any case, I don't mean to downplay the variety of opponents of Ali. Both him and Louis defended a lot and against a huge range of guys. I just found them to be good examples of the topic.
     
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
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  6. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think fighting alot of different styles is a good thing to show how an ATG can deal with a wide variety of styles, but also context of the level of opposition has to be taken into account.

    Also as for your thread how about this one Ali fought a Southpaw in Mildenberger, i believe Louis said he never wanted to fight a Southpaw after sparring one ? and i don't believe he ever did fight one in a professional fight unless i'm mistaken ? certainly not in his championship reign anyway not that there was any standout lefties at that time.
     
    Dynamicpuncher, Jul 18, 2023
    Dynamicpuncher, Jul 18, 2023
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  7. Sailor Joe

    Sailor Joe Member Full Member

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    With that in mind, which heavyweights impress you the most in that regard.
     
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
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  8. Sailor Joe

    Sailor Joe Member Full Member

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    Nice point in favor of Ali's opposition. Strangely something I hadn't given much thought too ;possibly because of the lack of heavyweight southpaws through much of the divisions history.

    I often actually think that one of the most fun aspects that heavyweight has, is the greater variation in challenges boxers face due to the wide range of weights possible. But, the challenge of facing southpaws seems to be a glaring omission in the varieties possible (except in modern times... But, modern heavyweight lacks many smaller heavyweights thanks to the existence of cruiserweight).
     
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
    Sailor Joe, Jul 18, 2023
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  9. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah there hasn't been many stand out Heavyweight lefties, there seems to be more of them now in the modern era with......Byrd, Zhang, Ortiz, Usyk, Moorer, Sanders, etc.

    But again that's not Louis's fault, I don't believe there was any stand out lefties during his time. Although he did state he would never fight one after sparring session, so maybe he could be vulnerable to lefties I don't know.
     
    Dynamicpuncher, Jul 18, 2023
    Dynamicpuncher, Jul 18, 2023
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  10. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    That he did!
     
    Fergy, Jul 18, 2023
    Fergy, Jul 18, 2023
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Others have mentioned Joe Louis, and that is a obviously sound pick.

    There is not much by way of a kind of heavyweight, that you won't find on Jack Sharkey's resume, albeit he fought most of them in no title fights.
     
    janitor, Jul 18, 2023
    janitor, Jul 18, 2023
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  12. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    I’m not convinced he did in all honesty. I think the standard of contenders Lewis was fighting were often average. Big men with very little skills in truth.

    It would be hard to put a style on basic fighters like Rahman Grant etc. Even Tua. The guy comes forward but can’t stop a jab scoring and doesn’t close the distance well. I’m also not sure what exact style I’d refer to the Tyson and Holyfield that Lewis fought as having as they relied on athleticism etc. Maybe Holyfield as a guy looking to pick his spots to counter and fight but lacking activity/speed.

    There’s no real top pressure/defensive fighters or guys that move well on Lewis’ resume. I don’t blame him because there weren’t many if any time pick from in the era.

    I think Tyson’s competition was more varied. Guys that could crack, box, move etc. Tubbs Bruno Tucker Berbick superior to Lewis’ challengers.
     
    J.edwards_, Jul 18, 2023
    J.edwards_, Jul 18, 2023
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  13. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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    Ali ...slugger, boxer, swarmer, southpaw
     
    ikrasevic, Jul 18, 2023
    ikrasevic, Jul 18, 2023
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  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Mike Tyson might be worth a mention.

    He was defending some version of the title, when he fought Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Tills, Holmes, Tubbs Spinks, Bruno, Williams, Douglas, Seldon, and Holyfield.
     
    janitor, Jul 18, 2023
    janitor, Jul 18, 2023
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  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Wlad fought the entire encyclopedia of fighters and fighting styles.
     
    Seamus, Jul 18, 2023
    Seamus, Jul 18, 2023
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