Muhamed Ali vs Rocky Marciano prime for prime

Small Doug Jones,Banks and Cooper also did not have big reach but they knocked Ali down!Shavers was not big man but his right connected...
Marciano had better chin,was stronger more durable than Frazier and had better tools than Bonavena and Doug Jones!
Ali won second but third fight??Did you watched that fight?It is atleast a draw!

 

He was atleasst prime fighter and was not punch drunk!

 

Using your extremely biased and flawed logic your hero Marciano was decked by the tiny Moore and little Jersey Joe Walcott.

How the hell did Marciano have a better chin than Frazier let alone be a stronger man ? Rocky never faced anyone who was a real puncher and weighed over 200 pounds.

Marciano’s best weight of 185 pounds was twenty pounds lighter than Fraziers best weight and unlike Frazier Rocky never faced genuine big, strong heavyweights like Foreman and Ali. Bonavena would actually be a physically stronger man than Marciano.

As an aside Doug Jones was actually a MUCH more skilled fighter than the crude Marciano.

You’re one of those new posters who type shouts a load of biased opinions that you seem to think are facts which gets pretty wearing after a while.

Why don’t you mention the fact that your hero had huge problems with Roland LaStarza and Ted Lowry. You like cherry picking anything that boosts Marcianos career while not applying the same logic to anyone you are degrading.

I will say what others here won’t. If Marciano was a black man I very much doubt whether your fanboyism would be so extreme.

Name one genuine prime world class heavyweight Marciano defeated who had a prime fighting weight of over 210 pounds.

Ali made over twenty defences of the undisputed heavyweight title, first won the title in 1964 and was still fighting for the title in the 1980s when he faced Holmes. He was the first man to genuinely win the heavyweight title three times. He beat fellow HEAVYWEIGHT greats Liston, Foreman and Frazier. Three fighters many put in their top ten of all time. His achievements dwarf Marciano’s .

It’s just getting sillier n sillier here lately.

I am going to have a break from posting as there are simply too many aggressive, younger posters here now who in my opinion know very little about the history of the sport

Cheers.

 

With all due respect, the Cooper and Jones fight were in 1963, Shavers in 1977, Prime Ali was from 1964-1967, He tore up Cooper in the rematch, May 21 1966, TKO 6, and Doug Jones was busy easily losing to Ernie Terrell, in June 1966, and later Joe Frazier, in 1966. Ali was better in his reign as champion after beating Liston in 1964, but I respect your opinion. You do have a point, Ali vs Marciano.

 

Marciano had a hell of a double hook and power jab with a monster right hand - he always had the other hand loaded up and usually punched in bunches- they say he was slow but beat many quick skilled fighters to the punch and no fighter was ever the same after fighting him - Vingo-Layne-LaStarza- Walcott-Charles -etc. With Archie he used the hook much - what people overlook is Marciano had a rhythm breaking style because he fought low and threw punches from odd angles - he was not an easy fight for even very skilled fighters.

 

Not only was Ali much longer, taller, quicker, better balanced, had a better beard, threw better combo's, proven to be more relentless against a much better class of opponent, but he was physically the stronger man. He would own the clinches, draining the smaller, weaker man and positioning him exactly where wanted him.

This ends exceedingly poorly for Marciano.

 

Rocky KO 7

 

All these things can be said about Frazier, yet Joe really troubled Ali.

 

The left hook was an issue, but a good left hook on it's own wouldn't get you very far against Ali. Frazier's pressure was the key to his success. While Ali was susceptible to a left hook, that doesn't mean that a two fisted pressure fighter, would not have comparable, or even greater success against him.

The point is that Frazier over performed against Ale, and Ali under preformed against Frazier, relative to how good they were as fighters.

for example Frazier was far more successful against Ali, than George Foreman was, despite what George Foreman did to him.

A stylistic advantage doesn't necessarily mean that you will win, but it does mean that you will do better than your your level as a fighter suggests.

 

I am not saying that Marciano would necessarily win.

What I am saying is that he has a stylistic advantage here.

He would over perform against Ali, and Ali would under perform against him.

Not a matter of heart or will, just a simple matter of styles.

The swarmer is the boxer's kryptonite.

 

"Perfect!!!"

 

Rocky would put in a great performance of heart and courage, and this would be a pretty amazing fight to see.

But I just don't see that hook landing enough, or flush. Ali moves, counters, jabs silly, lands the right at least half the time. Unanimous decision. Both men are looking pretty gassed out toward the end, Ali holding while Rocky (eyes puffed up and a bit bloody) chases him in the later rounds.

Ali just plain scores too many shots early in the fight to make the final decision any less than three points ahead on all three judge's cards.

 

Prime Ali beats prime Rocky on a decision imo, barring any cuts stoppage, but it's a tough night for both men. I think it'd be a great bout to watch with the contrasting styles.

 

Not only does Frazier possess a punch Ali is more susceptible to being hit by, but has 20 lbs, 6 inches more reach and faster hands. He would find it harder to land. Patterson is also a pressure fighter, who was quick, possesses a left hook and arguably hit as hard as Marciano as you can see from his KOs of Moore, Ingo and Cooper. But Patterson was bullied by the bigger stronger man.

BTW I don't really agree that a pressure fighter necessarily has a stylistic advantage over a pure boxer. How skilled either man is and if the boxer in strong enough to tie up his opponent inside, the pressure fighter can't land. Ali started to employ this technique in subsequent Frazier fights and he'd lean on the back of Frazier's neck. IIRC he did this in the first Patterson fight and it injured Patterson's back

We also have no reference point for Marciano facing a 6'3 220lb opponent because it never happened. Nevermind one who moved like a welterweight, fought tall and was the fastest in the divisions history.

 

The bottom line is that Frazier has some advantages over Marciano, and Marciano has some advantages over Frazier.

Both are going to be very problematic for him, for much the same reason.

A past prime Patterson did very well against Ali in his last fight.

Would it not be fair to say that he over performed, relative to what he was?

Didn't he do a lot better than fighters like Quarry and Ellis, who were at around the same level at the time?

Of course a pressure fighter won't necessarily beat a pure boxer, or the pure boxer wouldn't bother to turn up.

However the pressure fighter will almost invariably do better, than fighters of the same approximate class, who are let's say a boxer puncher or a slugger.

You have that problem when matching Ali against anybody in a fantasy fight.

He was basically a one off.