Muhamed Ali vs Rocky Marciano prime for prime

All he has is old declining guys who were slipping and small.

Meldrick taylor was a prime talented prodigy. 24 years old. A future star.


Who is like that on rockys resumee? Rex layne?

Julio cesar chavezs win over peak taylor is miles better than rockys best win over a prime opponent.

Chavezs opponents taylor, de la hoya and whitaker are unlike anybody on marcianos resumee. Thats just a fact.


Can we argue that 40 year old Walcott was p4p as good a win as 24 year old taylor? Maybe but i wouldnt.

But i didnt evem say chavez had better wins, i had chavez has different types of wins and marciano only has one type of win....the declining small guy whos already on his way down

 

Who is the best up amd coming, in his prime or atleast under 30 year old Heavyweight Marciano fought?
Forget Prime Frazier and Foreman does he atleast have someone like a prime Norton on his resumee?

Dangerous hungry Contenders gunning for him like Shavers and Lyle?


No they were all worn out and old, on their way out

 

What future star or future crap? How old are you? Meldrick taylor was a very good amateur that was a nobody at professional just like henrry tillman that did beat tyson twice in the amateurs. The version of ezzard charles that rocky fought was miles better than taylor pfp h2h or any sense . taylor wad not even the best win of chavez, camacho was much better,go and learn anything

 

I always say that Marciano on his best night could be favored over any under 200 pounder. Even though he beat them, it's not inconceivable that Walcott and Charles could've beaten him on a different night. But any 200 and under you can name, Marciano has a serious chance at beating them.

 

Uh he was better than tillman. Taylor was going places. The chavez beating was really bad and getting knocked out by terry norris at 154 finished him.


Still its a different type of win than a win over someone thats slipping.

Younger fighters have more stamina more activity morenpace and are just fresher while declining fighters show somenof their former class in the beginning but then fade in the last few rounds and get knocked out.


Marciano does not have good wins over fighters that are under 30. Period.

That was my point.
Read the post that started this debate again. I didnt say taylor was better than charles. I said marciano had no win that is like taylor because he didnt fight any young fighters.

Old fighters with alot of wear and tear are the ones that just fall apart under pressure and punishment because theyve already taken so much of it that they dont have much left.

Young fighters are fierce, havent gotten used to losing yet and will fight until the last second because they dont believe they can lose. Young fighters have better punch resistance, fresher legs, higher punch count.


Even if a young fighter and an old fighter are equally good, a young fighter presents a completely different challenge

 

Most heavyweights could punch and while Lyle was among them I have seen Lyle fight live many times and I would not list him as an elite puncher.

Guys like Lou Baily (KO'd 11 times) Wendell Newton (KO'd by Doug Jones,Piccolo, Bonavena, Leotis Martin) Lyle w SD.

Bob Stallings (Ko'd by Jack Bodell, Al Lewis, Henry Clark, Larry Middleton & 2-2 Wille Moore, 180lb Arnie Brewer among others) Lyle W10.

A worn Jimmy Ellis KO'd in 1 round by Shavers a year earlier went the distance against Lyle, as well as Gregorio Peralta 2x, 1 draw, Bugner,Stan Ward (who was stopped by Page,Weaver,Coetzee,etc. Not to mention his losses 2X to Jimmy Young,stopped by Ali, Quarry, etc.

I met Lyle before the Quarry fight & watched Quarry handle Lyle pretty easily and also watched an older Lyle get KO'd in 1 by Cooney. The Foreman fight was one of the best heavyweight fights I have seen but lacking defense and Foreman got hit with everything and that was an impressive performance by Foreman & Lyle although George showed a big vulerable side on defense.

Lyle stopped Shavers on attrition (getting off the floor) but Quarry took Shavers out in 1, He stopped Boone Kirkman on a cut.
Lyle was not a feather fisted guy and was a big guy for the day 6'3 220 he also had the prison thing going for him an he intimidated many guys with the Liston look but I would not put him in an elite class of puncher he was better than average. IMO

 

Good points but to be fair Peralta went the distance with nearly everyone!

 

I agree Peralta was durable and from an era when some heavy duty fighters were coming out of Argentina. When Foreman stopped Peralta along the ropes in the rematch I thought it was a quick stoppage and not really legit so props to Gregorio

 

Well, I guess Foremans chin (and his defense) is just above avarage too then?

Do you think Rocky was a harder puncher than Lyle?

 

Foreman had an excellent chin but was also Ko'd by Ali, dropped by Jimmy Young & dropped a couple of times by Lyle who couldnt stop a spent Jimmy Ellis who was KO'd by Shavers in 1 (who was Ko'd by Quarry in 1

The younger Foreman didnt fight any punchers till he fought a ragged Frazier (who was staggered by Ron Stander & Terry Daniels) but Frazier landed nothing on Foreman

The older version of Foreman learned from Old Archie Moore how to roll with the punches and conserve his energy and showed better overall durability


Elite punchers were Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano,Dempsey, Foreman,Tyson,Lewis,Vlad Klitscko, among others

I do not put Ron Lyle in an elite bracket as a puncher.

What one punch Ko's put him there for you?

 

When the hell WAS Ali's prime??? Was it before the draft dodging thing, or when he came back? I think it was when he came back, more stationary, more subtle moves for defence, more in the fight rather than the dancing *******. I think he was better boxer in his thirties

 

This needs to be said. A few minutes against a shot up, overhyped Cleveland Williams has everyone enthralled but I think a 1973 Ali beats that version.

 

I think the Ali of Zaire could very well be the best version.
Experienced, harder hitting and more durable.

 

Right after beating Foreman, Ali himself said that the version that beat Liston was better and would have had an easier time with George.

 

Ali, his trainer and opponents he had before and after the exile (Patterson, Chuvalo) said he was better before the exile.