Muhamed Ali vs Rocky Marciano prime for prime

Rocky vs Manilla Ali would be a bit intriguing. Especially under those conditions.

Pre exile Ali was way too fast and mobile.

 

I think Marciano has a chance against the 77'Ali that fought Shavers. Of course he can hardly put him down, since that man took one of the most vicious beatings the world has ever seen without going anywhere.

Lyle was a little bit rude like James Smith, but when they did hit you, they were elite power level. Of course someone can argue about elite puncher level, since absolutely nobody would predict less that durable fighters like Marvis Frazier go 10 with someone like Smith.
So yes, it has to do with a avoidance and not to get hit flush with the bombs.
Thats the difference with Rocky or Joe Frazier. Both were not elite power level, but they could dish out good power over 15 rounds.
And some fellows where sharp and powerful punchers, which I consider elite punchers.
Rocky or Dempsey can hardly generate the same impact as a big fellow like Lyle, whose fist + forearm literally have twice the mass. Plus there is much more torsional force.

Lyle could bomb:

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I wouldn't be surprised if Lyle hit as hard as Rocky. For the most part he was hitting on younger bigger men than Marciano faced.
If you want to provide examples of Lyles lack of top end power.How about Cockell going 9 rds with him Lowry, a light heavy going the distance twice,37 years old Walcott going 13rds, Red Applegate, Lastarza1,Charles1,near 40 Moore going 9 rds ? Marciano was usually an attrition puncher imo.

 

Marciano could get you both ways one punch or attrition.

Peralta was a blown up light heavyweight and he drew with Lyle and lost a decision but both fights went the distance.

Jerry Quarry was 6' 200 lbs when he spanked Lyle and I was there ringside tickets at MSG so I know ( Jerry was not exactly a svelt Heavyweight at 200lbs).

Jimmy Ellis was at the tail end of his career KO'd in 1 by Shavers prior to Lyle (I had ringside seats) Ellis was a former middleweight who lost to Don Fulmer, Henry Hank, Holly Mims,Rubin Carter, George Benson but Ko'd by Ali & Frazier 2x & Shavers in 1 rd. Jimmy Young was only 201lbs when he owned Lyle 1st fight. Lyle also had a pretty strong amateur career but went the distance with Manuel Ramos who was Ko'd in2 round by 203lb Smokin Joe Frazier

Lowry was a tough cagey guy, Moore KO'd #1 heavyweight contender Bob Baker & beat Nino Valdez 2 X among other , Kockel fought like Buster Douglas but was valiant only trying to survive much like middleweight Bobby (non puncher) Cyz did vs Holyfield just before Evanders next fight in which he Ko'd Tyson

Sam Langford was not much in size 5'8 180lbs but beat many Big heavyweights. Joe Choinski was another. Mickey Walker was another.

 

Lyle did hit harder than marciano

 

Hitting harder than the best heavyweight of your era, does not get you a silver medal, for finishing second!

 

I don't know what are you insinuating..

 

Lyles power didn't pan out to well against small heavyweights he actually fought like Peralta Quarry Ellis

 

Marciano has a higher knockout percentage than Lyle by far and stopped better opponents

 

I'm not 100% sure Lyle hit harder. He gets a lot of mileage from the Foreman war but it's a lot thinner after that. They both hit hard.

 

I hope you are being ironic

 

I mostly agree with this, except for the misuse of the word "literally".
Not the worst of them, which belongs to outlandish statements like "his head literally exploded".
But whatever measurements you use for fist & foreaem size, Lyle was nowhere near twice the size of their forearm & fist mass. Whatever meaurement you use, might as well say that a SHW was twice the height of a small HW like Rocky.

 

No Peralta started fighting heavies in 64 winning the Latin title in 65 he exclusively fought heavyweights until he retired thats 8 full years at heavyweight .He was only stopped 3 times, once when he was thrown in too soon against Mauro Mina, once on a cut eye to Pastrano and once on a tko to Foreman in their second fight Gregorio fought plenty of punchers,Bonavena, Lyle,Urtain, Foreman,he had a total of 3 stoppage losses in110 fights. not being able to stop him is no reflection on your power.

Lyle had just 29 amateur fights and didn't turn pro till he was 30 years old.
Marciano was a grinder he wore down most of his opponents even in the two most spectacular of his kos,against Layne and Walcott, he put in a hellacious amount of body punishment on Rex to soften him up for the ko and he had Walcott looking to gain quick rests on the ropes in the late stages of their fight.Marciano's trump card was his conditioning that allowed him to still be swinging for the fences in the last minute of the last round,everything he threw was hard,he missed a lot but what he landed registered.
We never saw him against a young 200lbs plus quality heavyweight.

 

Ko % mean very little.Look up some of the acknowledged big punchers stats, eg Ike Williams 40%. The average age of Marciano's best foes is 33 years,he was stopping todays cruisers.

 

Ali stopped Quarry and Ellis ,do you think he hit harder than Lyle? Peralta was stopped 3 times in110 fights, once when he was overmatched ,once on a cut eye and once in the second Foreman fight. Invalid comparison on your part.