Muhammad Ali 1966 vs the best versions of Frazier/Foreman/Norton

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Drago, Oct 17, 2020 at 7:34 AM.


  1. Drago

    Drago Member Full Member

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    This is a subject i would like to discuss.

    Many haters of Ali always bring up that he struggled so much with Norton and lost to Frazier in 1971.
    Frazier once stated on the question if Louis could beat Ali: "I defeated Ali, so of course Joe could do it too."

    Many Ali die hard fans to the contrary say Foreman, Frazier and Norton only fought a B version of Ali, and his prime version from 1966 would have beaten all of them very comfortable without much struggle.

    Fact is:

    One guy fought Ali in 1966 and 1972, Mr. George Chuvalo.

    And Chuvalo stated really clear he won their second fight, and Ali was MUCH weaker in 1972 then he was in 1966.
    Chuvalo said the 1966 Ali was absolute untouchable for other heavyweights, and he is the only guy who actually can do a comparation.


    Your thoughts?
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Always loses to Joe, it's just too horrible a style for him. I think 60s Ali would win the rounds he won by a bit clearer margins, and wouldn't get dropped, and take a bit less damage, but he still loses more rounds than he wins. A non-stop aggressive fighter who's customised with the best left hook ever, and a chin good enough to take anything Ali can throw him is awful for any Ali. Frazier decision again.

    Ali probably doesn't rope-a-dope him, he probably fights him like Liston did and wins a decision.

    Norton gets out-sped.
     
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I like him over both. There was a short spell or two when he moved and jabbed against Norton and Norton had no answer. With youth on his side he'd win a comfortable decision. I'd also take the young version over Joe in a competitive bout.
     
  4. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali beats all of them, and I'm a huge fan of Frazier and Norton both.

    He was just too fast, and when he used to fight on the balls of his feet, his punches always had that extra pop that punished guys if they didn't respect that threat.

    Don't get me wrong, all three guys do a lot better than Karl Mildenberger or Zora Folley, but I envision 3 decisive wins for Ali.
     
  5. cuchulain

    cuchulain Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    George spoke the truth !
     
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  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Beats Foreman by outboxing/outsmarting him somewhat similar to what happened in real life. Doesn't have to much trouble with Norton, a vast contrast to their actual fights, and beats Frazier in a ****ing war. FOTC on steroids.
     
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  7. Showstopper97

    Showstopper97 Member Full Member

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    Beats them all. Frazier is his toughest test.
     
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  8. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Would be interesting to hear Patrerson’s thoughts on 60s Ali vs 70s Ali.

    I still tentatively pick Frazier to win, Norton I think gives Ali hell, but probably doesn’t have enough to win.

    Good fundamentals, good timing and cutting on the ring wel will always be an effective Way to neutralise Ali and other speedsters.
     
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  9. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hang on a min., Floyd fought Ali in '65 and '72, but the first fight was no contest.
     
  10. Devon

    Devon Active Member Full Member

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    Always loses to Joe? He lost to him once and beat him twice and that was in his comeback
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Oh sorry. My bad. Didn't know that. I meant to say:

    "Always loses to FOTC Joe, it's just too horrible a style for him. I think 60s Ali would win the rounds he won by a bit clearer margins, and wouldn't get dropped, and take a bit less damage, but he still loses more rounds than he wins. A non-stop aggressive fighter who's customised with the best left hook ever, and a chin good enough to take anything Ali can throw him is awful for any Ali. Frazier decision again."
     
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  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He said the same as Chuvalo did.
     
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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He couldn't take all Ali could throw, though.. That's why he lost the third.

    A peak Ali would land more blows than he did and in FOTC and take fewer, and that would be the difference.

    Don't forget that FOTC, just like Manilla, was in the balance after 10 rds. Just a bit more of freshness and sharpness is all that it takes to make the difference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020 at 4:09 PM
  14. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think any heavyweight beats FOTC Frazier. Period. I know, very unpopular opinion.

    Prime Foreman would have been stopped in 5, Norton would have been unanimously decisioned in 15.

    Foreman would have gotten floored by a flurry he wouldn't have expected or seen, but he would have gotten up. Ali would have just overwhelmed him with punches...I don't think George would have been able to mount any effective offense against him. And would have taken a hail of shots in the corner due to confusion and just not knowing what to do with someone so quick and sharp. The ref stops it when Ali blows out a Brian London-esque flurry of epic and unanswered proportions.

    Norton would have still given him trouble, but Ali was so much faster in 66...Ken wouldn't have had half the success he did following him around back in the day. He would have taken a ton of shots (though admittedly few of them would have particularly deterred him).
     
  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I seem to remember Ali going to war with him twice, and having hurt no more than once. In that one instance, he threw literally everything he had at him and still couldn't get Frazier out of there, or knock him down.
    Nah, he lost the third coz he had a more caring trainer. And he aged worse than Ali did. Notably so.