Muhammad Ali 1973 v Ken Norton 1976

Yeah, I've a hard time seeing a version of Ali that wouldn't struggle badly with Norton in 1973. Had he not have been forced into exile this is probably the point around where the athleticism he would have retained would have been largely offset by him aging a bit quicker due to more wear and tear. On the other hand I would not expect him to have had a fight as brutal as the FOTC, and if he was defending his title he might have come in a bit more prepared against Norton than he did in actual life.

If he scrapes by Norton, and then beats him a bit more clearly in a rematch, I can't see anyone taking his crown until Holmes comes around in 77-78. What a reign that would be. Still, though, Frazier and Foreman would hardly have been mentioned as ATG wins today. His career would look a lot more like Louis'.

 

That's true,

If Foreman had lost to Ali, he would probably would have been remembered by his critics as plodding, slow moving nobody who only rose above the journeyman ranks because of his power.. Frazier would be no more of a big name today than Zora Folley...

 

He was a real friend of the sport, frequently expressing concern for the moribund state of boxing during the late 1960s and early 1970s, which he revived. (Upon resigning the WBA Title in 1979, he expressly denied "saving" boxing, using the word "revived" instead.) When interviewed prior to Folley, he's clearly not worked up as he was for Terrell (and Zora certainly didn't give him any fuel for the fire as Terrell had), but I'm sure he could have pumped up interest for a provocative challenge, like what an undefeated Mac Foster might have been perceived as. (An ex-Marine going against a war protester is an angle Ali would certainly exploit to sell tickets, and Mac would have been most cooperative here. Unfortunately, by the time they did square off, JQ had already derailed him, making this far less of an interesting confrontation, Ali's first after turning 30.)

I don't know about him defending against friend and stablemate Ellis during the late 1960s, although they always jokingly discussed a rubber match to break their amateur deadlock. Thad Spencer, Leotis Martin, Blue Lewis (who was 20-0-0 when Martin stopped him in 1968), and a title return with Patterson are viable in addition to the other names you mentioned. Henry Clark was the first contender to idolize Ali, a hook which could have made for an interesting 15 round chess match in 1967 or early 1968. (Clark was the sort of boxer who might conceivably extend a peak Ali the distance. Before Liston got to him, he'd beaten Machen over 12 rounds, and Martin over ten, which would have made him an acceptable challenger in a division running dry of viable contenders.)

Terrell might have been a marketable rematch. He was still in his late 20s, only he and Chuvalo were able to take Ali the 15 round route, and he looked much better later in the year against Spencer than he had with Muhammad in Houston. Bodell could get a shot in the UK during 1970, after his first ascension to the BBB of C HW Title, and Ali probably takes his crown to Spain so Urtain can have a crack at it. He was mindful that his was a WORLD title, so he'd continue trotting the globe to exhibit himself internationally. Peralta could have given him an excuse to take the heavyweight title to Argentina, as Greg was on a very impressive late career run, undefeated from 1966 to 1970. Ramos was also on a good streak when he challenged Frazier in June 1968, and maybe Ali would have given him a shot in Mexico at this time.

Yes, a bum of the month club type situation would have probably been unavoidable, especially due to Muhammad's natural activity level, but the title would surely not be mothballed, and he'd be taking it around the world where a pocket of high interest could always be found.

At some point, lack of competition might cause him to regress to a point where he could be upset. To sustain motivation, he might have tried focusing on breaking the records of Marciano and Louis, aiming for Joe's record of 25 defenses (breaking that would take him to 47-0), then Rocky's perfect 49-0-0. (Coopman, in February 1976 was win number 50. With no exile, he probably gets to that circa late 1971-early 1972, maybe even by the time of the FOTC in March 1971. That's assuming five defenses a year in '67, '68, '69 and '70. If he gets to 50-0, does he even bother to stick around for Norton, Shavers, Lyle and Foreman, with that historic and seemingly unbreakable benchmark under his belt, very possibly before even turning 30?)

 

If Frazier stayed away from Foreman he would still beat everyone accept for Ali until he got old I feel. So I do think he would have been regarded as one of great contenders who really could have done something in another era.

The same could be said about Foreman. He could well have cleaned house with everyone except Ali. Young is the one who could spoil that picture.

 

Had Frazier never rose to the championship level though, he might have been forced to go up against more of the division's big hitters,ie. Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, M. Foster, etc, in an effort to stay in the rankings.. He wouldn't just get away with rematching Quarry, Ellis and Bonavena for ever. I think that taking such a route might have added an extra loss or two on his record.. I do agree with you on foreman though... Trying to find someone other than Ali to beat him would have been tough.. Until Young and Holmes came along, the best available contenders would have been Norton, Shavers, Lyle, Quarry, Frazier, Bugner and a few others, but I don't see any of them beating George, unless he showed up to face them with his head completely lodged in his arse the way it was against Young...

 

I've always been outspoken in my belief that Jerry could have beaten George, but I think Bugner has been overlooked for his potential to outlast and upset Foreman. Typically, he would have been too passive to do this, but he had good height, reach, skills, mobility, durability and 15 round stamina, plus dangerous power when he chose to unload it, as he did on Dunn and Denis. If unloaded on Foreman in a late round, he had the punch to inflict significant harm. He would definitely seek to tire George out and take him on a long scenic hike.

 

Imagine that; him getting that record before the 70's generation even showed up. Seeing how Ali somehow even thought it reasonable to continue efter Holmes, it's hard to see him retire in reasonable time, though.

 

His greatness is so oft repeated that it's become something of an abstraction. Ideas like breaking the records of Louis and Marciano before turning 30 can help restore just what a phenomenon he was at his peak into concrete terms.

You're right, he probably would come back, no matter what. But while this likely costs him a place alongside Marciano as an undefeated great, he could always add to his overall number of title defenses, and total length of time as a reigning champion. Those numbers would likely be out of reach, even today.

 

Had he surpassed Marciano's unbeaten streak of 49-0, I really don't think that picking up a later loss would have mattered... Say he made it to 53-0, before losing for the first time... The record was still broken...

 

Was Rocky the first reigning titleholder to get to 49-0 though? :think (I believe this is correct, but I haven't explored it closely.) I know Chavez got to 87-0-0 before the draw with Whitaker, but I think it matters in the minds of most that Marciano's record was never blemished as Chavez's eventually was.

If Galento retired before Louis, we'd be comparing his chin to Chuvalo's, as he may have been the first heavyweight to get through 100 fights without being dropped. (As it was, only Louis scored an official knockdown, and Tony got up from that to return the favor.)