Muhammad Ali 1974 v Sonny Liston 1964

Rope-a-dope would be suicide against Liston who wouldn't shoot his wad like Foreman. He'd pick his shots, and conserve his energy. Give me Liston by decision.

 

Stevie G. With all due respect Muhammad Ali was a very vulnerable fighter in 1974. The year before, Ali had his jaw broken by unheralded Ken Norton on March 31 1973 in San Diego California, Ali lost by a twelve round split decision, Ali weighed a pudgy 221 lbs, the in shape Ali of yesteryear used to weigh about 213 lbs back in 1967. Ali no longer had the stamina of his youth, that is another reason the Rope A Dope was born against George Foreman in 1974. Ali still had some speed, his footwork was no longer that of a Butterfly and is reflexes were now failing him. The newer competition has nothing to do with Ali's vulnerabilities, it is just that Ali was facing an unbeatable opponent, Father Time. Sonny Liston's abilities were lost in 1964 because of off the ring habits but also due to inactivity, two rounds in two years did not help at all. An older fighter has to remain active to retain sharpness. Therefore it would be a much tougher bout for both fighters, Ali had a twelve round decision win over long time rival Joe Frazier in Jan 1974. Ali comes out of this with a win, but it is not a walk in the park as it was on Feb 25 1964, adding ten years can take a tole. Ali by a close but unanimous decision. Ali could punch a little harder than Liston this time but he would also eat some leather as again the reflexes just happened to walk away. The Ali as champion from 1964-1967 was better, I saw him fight live on either Closed Circuit Television or on ABC's Wide World Of Sports.

 

I would favor peak Liston against this version of Ali. However, Ali had so much experience and determination to win in Zaire, I could see him coming up with a strategy to adjust for this scenario. Ali still had good head movement, hand speed, his blistering jab, and the strength to tie up Liston.

The biggest problem with Liston is that unlike most big hitters, he had very good ring IQ and good stamina. He wouldn't fall for the rope a dope and if we are assuming he has knowledge of how their other fights went, he wouldn't underestimate Ali. Liston wouldn't just chase him around the ring swinging at air, he'd calmly walk him down operating behind a sledgehammer jab and going to the body whenever possible to slow Ali down.

It would be a very tactical, nail biter affair with lots of close rounds. I think Liston could edge it unless Ali can maintain his momentum and footwork in spurts to frustrate him like he did in the 60's but it would be difficult to do this at this age for Ali. At several points Ali would need to stop moving since he just didn't have the energy to move all night anymore. His only options would be to cover up and give rounds away or fight at ring center (very dangerous).

 

Fantastic Post Glass City Cobra. Your post is very realistic.

 

If Liston is in shape and the Mob and Muslims don’t get involved I would say Liston would win. But it would be no cake walk. Ali in 74 had plenty left and was a very cagey fighter and he would use every bit of that.

 

Liston via Close UD

 

Hmmm, in the first fight, Ali had his best moments when he came off his toes and boxed off the jab, controlling ring centre.

The Rope-A-Dope was necessitated by Foreman's footwork in cutting off the ring. The Liston of 1964 doesn't move like Foreman, neither does he use his strength to push people back like Foreman did. The ring wouldn't be the same ring or the fight in the same conditions as Kinshasa. The Ali of 1974 was better prepared to use his handspeed, educated footwork (look at how he initially baits Foreman into the first lead right), the durability to the body and the ring savvy to box against the 1964 version of Liston than the version of Ali that first faced Norton.

This fight doesn't play out the way that a lot of people think it does for my money.

 

Let me say this. Though Liston is the favorite in my book. Ali was magnificent that night. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if he found a way.

 

Good points - Ali went into Zaire with one game plan in mind - keep in the middle of the ring and outbox Foreman - but after the first round realized it wouldn't work; the soft ring, Foreman's cutting off the ring worked against him ... and adapted on the fly. No reason to think he couldn't do the same thing with Liston. He had so much more guile and ring savvy in 1974 vs 1964 - I think it more than made up for the loss in quickness and endurance

 

People should decide if Liston was past his best in 1964 or not. If he is, then why should we expect him to beat such a good version of Ali?

 

Just saw it was ‘64 Liston.

Ali wins in a slightly more difficult fight than their first encounter.

 

Thanks buddy, I like your post as well too.