Muhammad Ali 1974 v Vitali Klitschko 2004

Point taken, though mouth breakers are generally the result of the right time and the right place not power.

Ali was a sharp accurate puncher, Lewis punched to cut. Ali's punches cut.
Ali had better accuracy than the already highly accurate Lewis and he was faster too so that would negate the range issue for Ali.

 

Ali was a master of cutting opponents though, cuts don't usually come from heavier punches but from faster slashing punches

And no Lewis doesn't have Ali's accuracy.

 

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but here I have a few reservations:

1. By 1974 a lot of that speed and accuracy was diminished.

2. While fast - slashing punches do cause cuts, I think Lewis's power had something to do with it in this particular case.

3. Vitali Klitschko wasn't chuck Wepner or Jerry Quarry who both had a longer history of getting cut regularly.

4. In order to cause a cut, and capitalize on that cut once its opened, Ali would have to land with some regularity. Klit is very difficult to hit flush on.. Sure, his arm length isn't much longer than Muhammad's, if even at all. But actual height plays a factor combined with the arm length and the style that a man fights. Ali might have greater output and better speed even at that stage, but he's going to have to work his ass off to land. And a lot of those shots will likely be grazing punches that barely scratch the surface.

 

I don't know if there's anyway of accurately estimating the gain or reduction of a fighter's speed without the use of some sort of technology. Furthermore, I don't know if any such comparisons were ever conducted on Muhammad Ali between his first career and second. I agree that he was still damn fast in the 70's however. Does he beat Klitscko as a result of whatever speed speed he still had left? Maybe....

 

The only version(s) of Clay that (possibly) lose to either Klitschko (any version) is the post '76 versions of Clay, and even then Clay wins the rematch(s) so long as they occur before the '78 version of Clay.

 

Ali had plenty of speed left in 74. Of course he wasn't as fast as his late 60's self but he wasn't what i would call slow by the mid 70's either. Even in the Thrilla in Manila Ali showed he still had hand and foot speed and he was 224 lbs and looked to be in very good shape. Boxing is all about styles and I think Ali had the right style to handle Vitali's edge in size. Ali would frustrate Vitali with his hand speed, reflexes and mental toughness on way to a decision. Can anyone really envision Vitali outboxing Ali or leaving him on the deck for a 10 count?

 

Shot Lewis took Vitali to Hell.

 

Vitali is protected by Wlad more than Wlad is protected by Vitali.

Vitali takes on the slow plodders because those are the guys Vitali has a massive style advantage against.
Wlad fights everybody Vitali doesn't want to fight, and sometimes the men Wlad fought become Vitali opponents too.

Also people would pay, only if Ali happens to lose they will say that Vitali only won because of his big weight advantage.
But before or after the fight if Ali wins they will say weight means nothing.

See Haye: before the Brits went like : "Size means nothing, Haye will KO the slow giant" and then "Wlad didn't even manage to KO a blown up cruiser"

But that might not even be the case.

John Ruiz started at a lighter weight than Ali or Haye, doesn't even look big.
Yet people never call Ruiz a blown up whatever.

Ali his style was also good against bigger men as Ali didn't rely on his KO power much.
Punches still hurt even if they don't scramble brains like did they did on smaller men, if a punch hurts it backs a guy up.
And Ali's punches did hurt.

If Ali tries to become a swarmer or a brawler-boxer like Holyfield he would bite the dust relatively early, but as a pure boxer the problems shouldn't be there.

 

Holyfield brawled because he loved to brawl.
Fighters always make mistakes no exceptions, Hearns had all the tools to beat Hagler had he boxed.
What he did instead was answering Hagler's invitation for a brawl with a yes.

When Holyfield got older he got smarter which is why he negated everything from Tyson instead on relying "just" his ability to take flush shots and be a warrior.

The only thing that would hinder Ali's boxing performances in todays boxing scene besides his age right now is his ability to clinch bigger men. Maybe if he gets some wrestle training he would still be a bull inside the clinch.

 

Conditioning wise and speed wise, Frazier II was Ali's 1970s peak. [Foreman versus Ali in Madison Square Garden that night would have been interesting indeed, as Ali would not have been using the rope a dope in that climate controlled environment on that familiar ring surface.] We later discovered in Manila that a heavier and more poorly trained Ali was capable of a surprising punch rate when Carlos Padilla took away his neck yanking and clinching tactics.

Put referee Padilla and 2004 Vitali in the MSG ring with the well conditioned 212 pound Ali of Frazier II, and Muhammad either dances away with a pedestrian decision, or produces a cut eye stoppage like Patterson II and Quarry I. Still too much speed, mobility and stamina for the bigger man.