Muhammad Ali (74 version) vs Mike Tyson (88 Version) in Zaire 1974

And to your other question chest size could change depending on weight and muscle gained or lost.
Bone structure like wrist and knuckle thickness cant be manipulated.

 

I did not show uploaded photos from books, but search results of the numerous photos of Foreman & his hands from endless sources-many natural shots.
Just look at his hands in many videos-that you will not argue is doctored.
See how his hands dwarf Conan O'Brien's-who does not have big hands for his size, but is 6' 4" so they are certainly not small in absolute terms. In fact at ~ 3:30 he refers to the size of Foreman's hand in mock fear here:

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Even if that was so-which it obviously is not-that would not show that the 13" submitted for him is accurate.
It may be, more likely rounded up-like someone who on this website wrote that they saw a tape measure on his wrist & it was between 7.5" & 7 3/4".
Foreman only having a 12.5" wrist is obviously wrong, he has to at least be very near Liston, whose fist measurement has been listed anywhere from 14"-15.5".
But the degree of those variations is instructive as to how inaccurate many TOTPs are.

Anyway an 8" listing for a HW wrist is not at all unusual.
But that they are seldom anything BUT a round number must be instructive that even when it is ballpark, common sense tells you it is rounded off!

Since it is statistically impossible that so many are right on an even number.
Just like the # of men listing 6' for dating websites is impossible.

If you get Foreman just make sure you measure him the precise same way & slight tautness of the line.
Studies show endless bias, such as when 19th century scientists measured the braiaiain volume of black & white skulls by packing them with sand.
Trouble is, they knew which ones were Caucasion, so packed them tighter, as later measurements showed-there was no average difference in brain size, but their racist preconceptions had them at least subconsciously destroy the validity of the experiment. Although

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a species brain size is not even correlated with intelligence...
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man[/url]

 

Two problems with those statements.
Wrist & fist measurements generally do not change much because they are mostly bone.
But people get fat enough their wrist tends to grow-although much less than other fatty parts.
Also if someone atrophies they can lost some bulk even in their hands-granted not usually dramatically, & it may not yet apply at all to Foreman.
Oh you also need to make sure they are making a fist the same way-both either loosely OR tight.

Of course chest size could change.
But I anticipated that by saying he weighed more than in his prime-& it is obvious from photos & looking at his muscle mass that his mass & body fat was not very different-just a bit more fat by the time of Lewis.
Nor was it likely those slightly lower lower leg measurements were real changes: we do not know which were more accurate, but it reasonable to assume inaccuracy rather than change in where mass was distributed.

Also people always gain or lose fat in the areas they are genetically susceptible to do so.
So that is correlated with total body fat-while muscle distribution can shift it did not seem to do so with Tyson.

If you know proportions & sizes at all, you should be fairly incredulous that the heavily muscled Tyson who fought Lennox, not especially lean, only had a 44" expanded chest measurement.
Consider what anyone of any muscular size is when expanded-not just defined, but quite bulky like Tyson, & let us say at least average height.
While many exaggerate-& clothes sizes like a shirt collar tend to be at least a little

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44" chest when completely inflated by breath is definitely wrong for Tyson.
That would mean a mere "large" T-shirt would not be even slightly tight on him.

Another way to look at it is his muscular size, what lean body mass he could potentially reach

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, was nearly maxed out.
As was his leg measurements.
But that measurement that records largely pectoral & Lat/back measurement is way below what he could achieve.

 

Ali still has the speed,toughness and ability at this point in his career to beat the best Tyson. Muhammad would dance more,as Tyson was n't as good at cutting off the ring as Foreman was. Even though Mike was faster than George.

Pretty even bout up until the championship rounds when Ali takes over and stops his man around the unlucky - for Mike - thirteenth.

 

Do we have any actual evidence that hand size even makes a difference in boxing performance? I only ask because there seems to be a lot of debate about it in this thread.

 

I don't think it would be the deciding factor either.

 

It's not that Ali's tactics would make Tyson wilt in as much as he never really dealt well with adversity in the ring.

 

Were flooding this thread with an off topic subject. I didnt read your last 2 replies. Save it for your future thread.

 

I do not know if anyone cares about our talkin', but amicable exchanges.
But I can respect you wanting to keep it on topic.

However if you want to discuss it in the future-such as on the thread I will create, & even volunteering you wanna measure the proportions of Tyson & Foreman in person...
And given that I have tried hard to understand & systematically reply to your own arguments...

You should at least respect my efforts & want to understand what I was saying by going to the tiny trouble of *reading* & digesting my last 2 posts.
As per "[url]The Golden Rule[/url]".

 

mostly Frazier and Tyson would both relentlessly come in low bobbing and weaving, which Tyson had an emphasis of ending deep to the outside to get off a body/head combination or let off some bombs mid range, whereas Frazier would just keep coming all the way in, Tyson's emphasis on getting deep to the outside started to fade after Cus' passing and as time went on, when Tyson doesn't put emphasis on ending up to the outside and is still standing in front of his opponent like he did with Lewis he tends to eat shots

Tyson comes in bobbing weaving shifting back and forth, but Ali and Dundee have been studying his footwork, Tyson comes in fast to end up on the outside only to find Ali isn't there and has positioned himself to let at least 7 punches off on Tyson, the deeper it goes the more Tyson lets his getting to the outside fade and he ends up in front of Ali eating shots, by 7 or 8 Tyson is cut badly, now Ali has cuts to land on for the next 7 rounds with an increasingly fading Tyson

Teddy Atlas has pointed out how In Zaire Ali had developed his power a lot more and would use his speed and footwork to get to a position where he could sit down on a combination instead of dancing around the ring, how well does Tyson react to Ali moving like that, if he does the pinnacle of his technique which is getting deep to the outside to land a 3-5 punch combination and Ali isn't there does Tyson have the speed to react before Ali gets off

I wouldn't put it past Dundee to yell out numbers when Rooney is calling out combinations to try to confuse Tyson, or for Ali to call out the numbers of his punches as he throws/lands them on Tyson as psychological warfare, imagine Ali calling out and throwing 10+ punch combinations "bet the old man never called out that many for you cause he knew you aint fast enough, you aint pretty like me" as he keeps catching Tyson with jabs, right crosses, and those axe swinging uppercuts

 

Mike Tyson definitely wins. Muhammad Ali struggled against opponents like Ken Norton and Joe Frazier. Who lost badly against any slugger.
Mike Tyson would definitely win its kind of unfair.

 

Just a guess, there are both drugs and hookers in Zaire. Quality may be below Japan's finest, but the source will be there.

 

Mike would have hated it there more than George did. Zaire is where Ali met Veronica Porsche, his third wife. She was there as part of the entertainment. I get close to the home they lived in in Fremont Place when I pick up my wife from work. It's in a gated community off Wilshire Blvd. She's a psychologist and still has a practice. I live in Woodland Hills. That's where Lalia lives. My buddy sees her at the park from time to time.

 

Ali would absolutely befuddle Tyson.

 

Tyson would KO a prime Ali, honestly I’ve never understood this match up being 50-50 Ali is exactly what Tyson wants in an opponent, Ali drops his right uppercut really low for short opponents (his left hook will come over the top of it) Ali is smaller (lighter and less muscular) he hasn’t got much pop, clinches every time someone gets in (exactly what Tyson wants) and wastes a lot of movement skipping around, see what happened to Holmes when he got on his toes? Tyson would be a terror for Ali and catch up with some unexpected stuff eventually and flat like him, Ali can be hurt and stopped Cooper hurt Ali, Norton staggered Ali, Frazier hurt Ali etc none of those guys punched like Tyson IMO.