Muhammad Ali and the balance of fandom on this site

Come to think of it, I think the 70's heavyweight era is touted so highly these days because of the few eras after that(other than the 90's) being so lackluster. Sometimes nostalgia takes over and puts people's perceptions of things higher than they actually were. It's like trying to do things you don't like anymore that used to excite you as a child. The era was solid but compared to now it would get much higher praise than being compared to all the heavyweight eras of all time. Times change so it's hard to make fantasy matches pitting the top champions/contenders from the best hvy eras to go against each other because guys have gotten much bigger but skill can sometimes overcome that obstacle.

 

:rofl:good

 

Oh yeah, I saw that when it was on CH4.
Didn't bring anything new to the table, but it was okay. Slightly expoitative of Frazier, if anything. Portrayed him as the stereotypical down-and-out ex-fighter stuck in the past. The only thing I really got from that film was a renewed understanding of how much of an ******* Ferdie Pacheco is, a reminder of the fact at least.

I think Mark Kram's Ghosts of Manila was the first well-reviewed work to divert from the saintly portrayals of Ali that became popular in the 1990s. Can't say I've read it much at all. But to be fair, even Thomas Hauser covered Ali's excesses in regards to the Frazier rivalry in his Muhammad Ali : His Life And Times.

 

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Wasn't the documentary callled "The Thrilla In Manila"

You know I, as a relative newcomer to the site, appreciate the fact that Ali is not blindly worshipped here. Out in the rest of the world, as we all know, casual observers automatically name Ali as the greatest ever, and know little of the details of his career. It's frustrating.
If picking on Ali is in fashion now, as one poster suggested, then I say it's about time! Sure he's a great fighter and interesting character, but there is much, much to dislike as well. As a sports fan, I appreciate competition....fair competition. Unfortunately winning and losing in boxing often depends on judges, sometimes referees. If these people are blinded by love, intimidated, or simply brainwashed, then fair competition is out the window. And with Ali, who has to be the biggest self-promoter in the history of sports, fair competition wasn't possible. I mean, who ends up on more magazine covers, Gene Simmons or Leonard Cohen....outrageousness sells. Self-indulgent narcissism sells, too. So guys like Ali will always be popular. Plus he could fight a little.

 

As it pertains to the topic at hand

I think the big discrepancy between the balance of like/dislike of Ali on these forums compared to the view of the general public, is this "boxing knowledge complex" that hardcore fans develop.


Basically, Ali is called the greatest blindly by most casual fans, and although they could be right by many of our opinions, their obvious lack of knowledge of the other great champions throughout history automatically give us boxing enthusiasts a sub conscious notion that he is overrated. Then once you learn even more about boxing, you realize how close the level of talent someone like Ali and Louis share, and you find yourself hating the mainstream praise of Ali even more.


My belief is that if Ali were to somehow to have gone through his career without ever have been being as famous as Dempsey once was, more people on this message board would rate him the best.

 

Ali is another a boxer in a boxing forum but even still no doubt one of the greats of boxing history. I think it's fair that there needs to be a counter weight to put his case in forward properly.

There isn't anything wrong with his name transcending the sport either and influencing other areas but it's important to look at things critically in a boxing discussion.

As for Joe Frazier tragics, good on you. You're just as sad as he appears to be 30 years after being called bad names. :yep

 

ali is my favourite boxer, and to me he is the greatest no matter what arguments people throw at me.
he means a lot to me, more than just a boxer. i grew up watching his fights so maybe there is some nostalgia in there too?

i think some people hate him in the same way people hate beckham.
to these people both of them are simply far too popular and it irks them no end. i don't believe they can look past the celebrity to see the actual sportsman, though they won't admit it of course.

 

Not really, Beckham is laughably overrated by the casual football fan. Like a German journo once said after another **** world cup performance "his fame and actual ability are as wide as the Grand Canyon" . No one would ever think this of Ali- at least no one who wants to be taken seriously.

There was never a time when Beckham was one of the world's best players- ever (and please don't revert to some Fifa 2nd place 'marketing award', award even World Soccer commented "a fine player but the world's 2nd best. Come on!!!") The reality is the only footballer award he's even won is some Cartoon Network Player of the Year (and, by the way, i'm not joking!). :yep

When one of the national newspapers did their all-time 100 before the world cup if anyone was surprised Beckham wasn't it, then they need to **** off and start watching another sport. While, even Ali haters surely recognise he was one of the best heavyweights of all-time, because it's obvious he was. From a personal perspective, i get fed up with some of the decisions he received in the 1970s and the way he often treated the title during his second reign (e.g. 'retiring' many times and lack of mandatory defences) but that doesn't take away how good he was then and how astonishing he could be in the 1960s.

 

i've never considered beckham as the best player in the world, give me some credit, please.
its not to do with how good a player he is anyway. i merely mean that whether he's the best or the worst footballer, some people can't stand him because of the celeb status, they get tired of all the exposure.
i think some get sick and tired of ali always being called the greatest, sick of all the exposure he gets and has got over the many years.
the deification annoys the hell out of them!

 

Not many people hated Pele and he's the most celebrated performer in the world's most popular sport.

 

You'd think they afford Ali the same then.

 

Good post, I agree 100% with the Beckham **** also.... he was never on the level of a Zidane or Ronaldinho.

 

You seem to know unconfortombly much about Ali. Has he dissapointed you?