Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

Where exactly am I banned from? And where are you coming up with a ridiculous number like 95%? Source or stop making things up.

 

Tell us how Wlad is better than Ali OTHER THAN being bigger. Like I said, size isn't a skill. It's an attribute.

 

Okay ... Earlier I wrote I just had read the most stupid comment on this board ever ... I have to change my own comment. THIS is even more stupid and it is clear, you have never boxed your self. Why even bother read this stupid things. Perhaps you are Wlad and your own biggest fan. You don´t have a clue about boxing.

 

There are divisions for a reason sure, but the higher up you get in weight, the less important the difference in weight becomes. The chances of a junior lightweight beating a middleweight are extremely remote. The difference is 30 lbs.

Yet, how often have we seen a 30 lb. weight advantage overcome at heavyweight? Many times.
Ali is not really outsized here, not to any meaningful degree. His frame is not much smaller than Wlad's is. He carries a lot less muscle mass, but to me that extra bulk does not make a significant difference here.

The size difference between Ali and Sanders is immaterial, because 13 lbs. and an inch is basically splitting hairs. Sanders only swarmed Wlad once he got him in trouble. While I would not sat he was boxing off the back foot either, but employing good lateral movement.

But Sanders never got in close enough for Wlad to grab on to him. You're correct that he ties up to close an opponent down, but against Sanders he was getting caught from the outside, which is where he lost the fight.
You did make a good observation in that Sander was a southpaw and that is something I forgot about.

You are underrating Al's reflexes very badly I feel. I don't know what else to say.

But that wasn't really his game. He had great footspeed and balance. Why sacrifice that? In any event, you''re also quite incorrect. Ali did occasionally stand his ground, pull back and counter without dancing away. There is a great gif of Ali floating about on the 'net showing him using superb head movement to avoid what must have been five or six jabs and a right hand thrown by Terrell, and not one landed.

Yes, he was caught more in the 70's when he slowed a bit, but he was never what you'd term hittable. He was still a far cry from the lumbering guys Wlad has been fighting.

Fair point, but my point is that when Ali was outsized, his ability won out. That is really the point I've been trying to make all along...that size (I prefer the term bulk because that's really where the difference lies) is secondary to skill. It seems that you agree with me then? So can we put the size issue to bed?

I will give Wlad credit in that he definitely did learn a few things after his losses. But I think you're selling Ali short once again. In the 70's, he realized that he could not dance as much as he used to. He learnt how to fight off the ropes better, how to tie and opponent up more, and more importantly, showed a great ring aptitude and instinctive knack of what to do such as in the Foreman fight.
He realized after two rounds that he could never stand the pace in Zaire dancing about, and hatched an impromptu plan. Wlad has never shown any kind of adaptability like that.

Nope, but using the Spinks fight is being remarkably disingenuous. We both know that Ali was miles past his best by then.
Frazier and Norton were both excellent fighters. One is a consensus ATG and one is close to it.
Ali lost to Frazier having only fought twice in over 3 years. He lost to Norton, but had his jaw broken at some point in the fight.
He also avenged all those losses.

Wlad on the other hand lost to two journeymen and a fringe contender, all by stoppage, all when he was very close to his prime years. He avenged only one.
Have you forgotten?

He did! If he didn't, he would have been layed out by Foreman. Frazier was a relentless pressure fighter and Ali didn't have the legs he once did. He also lacked the outright power to keep Frazier off him. I will admit that Ali shipped too many hooks from Joe, but Wlad does not fight like Frazier. He uses primarily the jab and right hand. How many times was Ali hit clean with right hands in his prime?

Count how many times George actually hit Ali clean. VERY few times. Most were glancing shots, partially blocked shots, or outright misses. Ali was right in front of Foreman for most of the fight; if it were not for his reflexes, his ability to anticipate punches, and his overall savvy (and a little dirty fighting here and there) Foreman would have been landing much more clean shots, and would have probably knocked Ali out.

As I said before, Ali did not hit with huge force, but his punches were slashing, hurtful punches. He wore you down with attrition for the most part. Remember also that he did stop Frazier AND knocked out Foreman. Sure, the heat was the primary reason Foreman went down, but Ali hit him with several hard, hurtful punches. He hits hard enough to wear Wlad down or at the very least, make him respect his power. That's enough.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. I'm going with the guy who could get off the floor and win, who could come back from behind and win, improvise mid-fight and win, who showed a resilience and courage that Wlad could only dream of, who fought a higher level of competition and who I my mind, has all the requisite attributes to not only beat Wlad, but severely expose some of his limitations.

 

You still haven't explained how today's HWs are more skilled.

 

If give you one thing...you're certainly funnier! :rofl

 

They won't either. No body work, no head movement, lack of conditioning and LOTS of hugging make todays heavyweights better because they're bigger! Klitard logic. atsch

 

Size advantage does play an important part, but you need the skill to make it work. People say this 6'5" are going to be the new heavyweight champs. I say NO, unless there highly skilled, or this would of happened years ago. Take byrd, I believe he could of beat a sanders, cause he had a chin to take nice shot by sanders an stay on his feet, an he would always be moving, making those punches harder to land, not saying he couldn't lose, but you give be the byrd that fought wlad in there first fight, an sanders who fought wlad, I could see byrd winning a nice size UD. Wlad was fighting a GOLFER, not a boxer back there in 2003, you could see it from the opening bell, wlad was 2 ft off of sanders nose, two feet, that just asking to be taged by a guy with sanders skill, wlad wanted to be done in a few rounds, watch when he was sent to the canvas, wlad is up an back to the 2ft distance. How did he get there, wlad walked there. Wlad has known distance his whole career, this night he just decided to skip it, cause he was fighting a golfer. Nothing that sanders did accomplished him being inside his range on wlad, but wlad's ego. Look at wlad fights just a few months later, he is back using his range, an jabbing.. It was not till the third knock down the next round, that wlad was looking like he was fighting somebody besides a golfer:yep, but at that point it was to late

Ali, unless he really landed a punch he did not know he had in him, on wlads chin, in the opening of the round, were he could swarm him for over 2 minutes without a break, he has NO chance of beating wlad. Sorry, but wlad is not just bigger then Ali, he is better defensively, he has more power, an better at tactics. I could see a stoppage by wlad, wouldn't say anything early then the 5th, or wlad, yep you heard it here, wlad by a wide UD, ali maybe winning about 3 rounds, maybe 4 in a 15 rounder....


Go watch hayes fights, an see how great he looks. Then go watch his fight with Wlad, have you ever seen hayes taken so out of his game as wlad did to the haymaker,,,,, answer is NO......


Ali, the hippie wet dream, that an multiculturalism

 

You have the nerve to use a Parkinson's version of Ali to make your point. That's beyond pathetic.

 

Look man, I saw wlad's last fight and that was a ****ing disgrace. Man up and admit it.

 

What a bunch of shitty propaganda. At least you make an effort though unlike the other ta ta's, I can appreciate that much.

 

Ali would Dominate today and easily own the entire division.

FACT.

As far as I'm concerned... This topic is thoroughly and completely BUSTED!

 

Actually this topic is now boring me to death.. and the poll results speak for themselves.

 

Welcome to Klittardland. Where Corrie Sanders is an ATG. :rofl

 

Sorry bud, it's a bunch of propaganda. You get an A for effort yet an F for the delivery. As I said though, at least you make an effort no matter how warped or ridiculous I find it. Thats a whole lot more than 99% of the other nuthuggers.