Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

When Ali was 36 years old he was outboxed by an 8 professional fight newbie named Leon Spinks, losing his heavyweight title in the process.

When Klitschko was 36 he outboxed an experienced, and at the time, highly thought of David Haye.

 

Eloy, one minor thing you consistently overlook is that Wlad is in against opponents who suck...

They aren't aggressive enough, don't punch in combination, don't even know how to step forward and punch, because Wlad backs straight up when punched at, so all they need to do is keep stepping and punching... They can't and won't because they suck, so to you, Wlad looks like an offensive machine...

Its easy to look great when you have opponents who don't/can't fight back and you lack the ability to know what you're looking at.

 

or it just might be his opponents can't get him backing straight up because he is not backing straight back. A boxer doesn't need very much of an offset to get away from a coattail punch. How much of an offset do you think one would need to evade a coattail punch?

 

No, he just backs straight up. Anyone can see. Wlad backs straight up. Anyone who knows how to come forward mkre than one two steps while punching will catch Wlad.

Its amazing that you label any of Wlad's opponents "great". Iggy looked great before fighting Wlad? He beat up on nobodies and washed up names, getting hurt and dropped along the way...

Who of Wlads opponents are so great? Besides Haye, of course. We already know he's better than Muhammad Ali.... Imbicile.

 

Perhaps you need to watch more boxing?

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do you take pride in comparing fit people to those with Parkinsons type diseases?

what does this say about you?

 

He's never faced anybody with Ali's footwork.

 

You've just contradicted yourself.

Styles do make fights.

Ali fought a competitive fight against a former LHW in Doug Jones, when he was only 21 years of age.

You're saying that Jones wasn't troubled that much by Clay's movement.

What does that mean?

That Wlad wouldn't have been?

Wlad fought nothing like Doug Jones, and Muhammad Ali in his prime at 25, was a different fighter to a young Cassius Clay.

Cooper also caught a young Clay napping, who'd underestimated him.

Frazier and Norton also caused him lots of problems, like you've mentioned.

But you have to take the following points into consideration:


1. Wlad fights nothing like Joe Frazier and Cooper etc.


2. This thread is debating both fighters while they were peak.


A 25 year old peak Muhammad Ali, was not the same guy as a young, brash Clay from the early 60's, or a heavier post ban Ali from the 70's.

Again, styles make fights. There's never been truer words spoken.

George Foreman destroyed Joe Frazier, but Ali would always have struggled more with Frazier than Foreman, even if he'd have fought Foreman earlier.

Wlad may have crushed Jones, Cooper and Norton etc.

But that doesn't mean that he'd definitely have caused Ali more problems than what they had.

Other than Frazier and Cooper being able to drop him, what makes you think Wlad would have dropped him?

Why couldn't Wlad land flush on Haye, when Haye was up against the ropes, and he was stood in front of him with his hands down?

Ali had superior footwork to Haye.

It's clear that if Haye's movement caused him problems, then a 25 year old Ali, who was on his toes, dancing in and out of range etc, would have been a nightmare for him.

 

I said he favours his one-two punch, and he hasn't got a great selection of shots in his arsenal.

 

Wladimir KOs Ali in around the 5th/6th round...

 

none of them were blind. frazier slowly developed a cataract over his years in one eye, which would not have affected himmin his prime years.

boxers in all eras have damaged eyesight, but you'd ignore that fact conveniently.

you know Ali was clinging to the title desperately by 1978, but you conveniently forget that.

you have no knowledge of facts. fact.

 

And Ali's never fought anyone who's as good at neutralizing outboxers as Wlad. The difference is Ali's still been outboxed at time to time at range, Wlad doesn't even lose rounds against pure boxers.

 

Elroy,

You've said that Corrie Sanders would have beaten any version of Ali.

Moronic?

Ha! How can you deny that you're not Glover and Tommo, when you're raising the exact same points, and and using the same words and phrases.

I know you're not really serious here, and we had a decent debate 6 months ago regarding a number of things.

So I'll oblige you, even though we all know that you're trolling. It's all good fun at the end of the day.

So here goes.

Haye could evade Wlad with upper body movement and reflexes, but Ali couldn't have, even though he had great upper body movement, reflexes AND SUPERIOR footwork to Haye?

How can making a guy off balance, making him miss, and then countering, be classed as running away? Hit and not getting hit, is the art of boxing. Footwork is probably one of a fighters most important attributes. Footwork opens a variety of doors for a fighter. How could he have danced against Wlad and not been successful?

That's not an answer.

Tell me how Wlad would have found a 25 year old Ali, and be specific.

Byrd and Chambers fight nothing like a prime Ali.

Ali never fought a decent opponent?

Didn't you get banned for calling Floyd Patterson a bum etc?

Wlad has never been troubled by footwork?

He's never fought anybody with Ali's footwork, and has been stopped by Sanders, Puritty and Brewster, and he went life and death with Sam Peter.

But I suppose that Brewster, Sanders, Puritty and Peter, are/were far superior fighters to guys like Liston and Patterson etc?

Ha! Quality!

Ha! How can a fighter who's been stopped by Brewster, Puritty, Sanders and who struggled with a limited Sam Peter, NOT NEED certain punches?

You're hilarious.

Haye and Byrd are far superior to Ali?



Who's Wlad fought that was harder to catch than Ali?

:good

 

Ali was never outboxed in his prime, and Wlad has struggled with guys who had minimal movement compared to Ali.

 

I swear you live in a topsy turvy parallel universe elroy, you are funny. in this universe its wlad that fights on the run.