Muhammad Ali at his best vs. Wladimir Klitschko at his best, who wins?

It means it was highly likely Wlad would have caught him, due to Wlad being superior to Cooper in every dept. Ali barely survived Cooper, what would Wlad's sledgehammer power have done to Ali if he landed clean?

Also, of course all we have is 'ifs', because this is a mythical match up! :nut

 

Look at these fools trying to prop Haye up to ATG status because he is one of Wlads best wins and exposed his limitations.

There was a better version of Haye in the 80's called Michael Dokes who never achieved much.

CW nobody's also managed to hit Haye a lot easier than Wlad and The Cat, passed his prime was able to stop him.

 

I swear to God, you lose more IQ points every time you make a new post.

You keep saying Wlad rarely loses rounds even in the fights he was losing. He lost the first round against Sanders, and he lost that fight.

But please, continue to tell us how Wlad's resume is full of Murderer's Row-level opponents.

 

And you know this how? That's right, you don't.

So cry me a river...it's a fight. And this is a historical problem for Klitshcko: punch him back a few times and he crumbles. He could not put serious hurt on Puritty for 9 rounds, but when hit back he folded like a cheap deck chair. Gassed? So what? Must every fighter who ever gassed get some weird magical pass because they got tired?

And he didn't learn quite as much as you think he did. He was doing the exact same thing in the Wach fight - trying to take out an opponent he just couldn't - but Wach being so utterly crap just couldn't take any advantage of it. The signs were there all fight long though...a better opponent could well have ended up knocking him out.

It seems any actual fact which counters your so-called 'facts' is deemed irrelevant. Can't face the uncomfortable truth? Not one thing I said about his opponents was a distortion or a lie. Plain, stone-cold facts. Something you seem to battle to accept.

Same could be said of a zillion fighters. You're trying to project what 'could have been' rather than what was. And lacking in stamina and chin? Mighty big hurdles to overcome at the top level. And again, Wlad wasn't even facing a prime Sanders. He was fighting an old man known for not training. Sanders was a cherry-picked opponent expected to lose.

Which was something I always found interesting. Lewis and Hearns, two guys not exactly known for iron chins, managed to do just fine without having to undergo a complete style overhaul. They lost, they got knocked out and came back with minor adjustments and still managed to make exciting fights and win and establish ATG careers afterwards. Yet Wlad had to undergo a complete style overhaul and become a safety-first clincher. Why is that?

Read the above point again. Why did Wlad have to become a boring, safety-first winner? Why such a huge transition? Could it be that his psyche was completely and utterly shattered, along with his chin? Wlad doesn't just fight in a boring manner, he fights scared.
Sanders said that Klitschko's eyes were full of fear when he was getting pummeled.

He literally shits his pants if a fighter manages to get a shot in. See the Wach fight again. He goes from dominant to desperately grabbing and holding on after a single right hand. And this is the guy that is going to beat Ali?
Wlad looks like Tarzan but fights like Jane.

 

That goes double for GG:hi:

 

Ali lost to 6-0 Spinks and limited journeyman like Berbick. What chance does he stand against Wlad?

 

Holy ****! You should have just posted this in the very beginning and saved us all this effort. SO TRUE.

:good

 

Gennadyi at least didn't get twatted by some journeyman.

Wladimir lost to Ross Puritty ffs.

 

:rofl I'm battling to control my bladder. Is this monster the same guy who had THIRTEEN losses prior to flattening Wlad??

Note also that Ross was 'heavy'...a desirable attribute apparently...I can only imagine the high esteem in which you hold Nikolai Valuev or Butterbean, Elroy.

 

Anyone with good inside fighting ability and punching power would beat Wlad. Povetkin had Wlad retreating, FFS.

 

Windbag.


wha:

 

Stats eh? Do you spend all day looking at data sheets? I've already shown you what stats mean...as much as you want them to. Speculation and conjecture on your part, nothing more. And what about Wlad's chin? Do you think Williams and Liston could not crack that china if they hit it?

No, because as you yourself said, his attacking skills are terrible. Puritty is not a good fighter full stop. You're making an assumption that purely because he was heavier, he'd fare better in an era of less bulky (not necessarily smaller per se) heavyweights. You simply don't know with any certainty how he'd fare. He was a poor fighter, and poor fighters are always exposed as such against good opposition.

No, he wasn't outboxed. His punch resistance was exposed, which is a far more worrying problem in a heavyweight.
Ali was not outboxed by Frazier. Ali lost a razor thin decision to Norton. As an old man suffering Parkinson's, he was outworked and outhustled by Spinks. Yes, Holmes outboxed him. Ali was a corpse by then. I won't even talk about the Berbick fight.
In his prime, Ali was not outboxed, and he was never stopped.

Right, and yet Corrie Sanders failed to knock out several cruiserweights in his own era.
You are extremely ignorant Elroy. Extremely. Anyone can talk a good game on the internet but you lack any kind of context, and it's come back to haunt you several times.
You know what the funniest part of this all is? Sanders wasn't even regarded as a big puncher before he iced Klitschko.
Those cruiserweights he couldn't knock out? The rap on Sanders back in the day was that he was a slapper, a cuffing puncher with a less-than-great punch. Steve Zouski on live television tried to duck the question when asked by the interviewer about Sanders' punching power. He didn't want to appear disrespectful.
It's only today, after he knocked out Wlad, that he has become regarded as this big puncher. Say something enough, and it becomes true, especially n this day and age of internet banter.
Corrie was a good puncher, but he was no knockout artist or the bone-breaker you would have people believe.

Illness, poisoning, whatever. The litany of excuses never end. I'm surprised you haven't brought up Corrie's butt/punch again. Brewster beat Wlad up after absorbing his punches, same as what Puritty did to him. End of discussion.
That's how it's gone down in history, that's how it went down on television, and that's that. Making excuses doesn't change a thing.

Nearing 38 is old for any fighter. The fact that some like Hopkins or Vitali or Foreman had success past this age does not change this fundamental fact. NONE of these guys were as good at 38 as they were at 28 physically.
And taken too lightly? Where is any evidence of this? Wlad never comes into the ring unprepared...so why now? Evidence please.

One punch can turn a fight in any division. P4P, a featherweight hits as hard as a heavyweight. Watch Donaire ice Darchinyan with a single left hook as but one of thousands of examples.
And Hearns didn't use height and reach advantages? Have you even watched Hearns box? Some of your statements flat out deny reality.

See above. In any division, at any weight, there is a chance of a shock knockout. You are 100% wrong.
You have completely brainwashed yourself into believing Ali's era was full of featherfists and non-punchers, simply because they didn't weigh 240 pounds.
Again this fascination with heft and bulk.

What seems to completely escape you is that a lot of these 'monsters' today are in fact no bigger than the guys in Ali's era, but due to weight training and *cough* other means, or pure bad eating, have added 20, 30 or more pounds to their frames.
They have become heavier and stronger but also slower, less mobile, more hittable. What you gain on one hand you lose with the other. Povetkin at 230 today is no bigger than plenty of 60's and 70's heavyweights. He's 6'2" with a paltry 75" reach. Sam Peter...6'2" with 77" reach. The only difference is bulk.

And even so...again... little non-punchers like Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers managed to carve out decent careers in this era of 'giants.' Not to mention a short, fat, non-punching ex-middleweight like James Toney. It's quite astonishing that these little featherfists managed to do pretty good in this era of giants, don't you think?

No, I have painted a realistic picture of Wlad's opponents. If that happens to be mainly negative, it's because they weren't all that as fighters.
I have backed up what I said with stats, which you seem so fond of.

You on the other hand, have tried to portray the guys that beat Wlad as these amazing supermen, which in their era or any other, they are/were not. You make completely baseless and laughable claims (and I emphasize claims) that Sanders and Brewster would not only beat all of Ali's opponents, but Ali himself.
Go to the next IBHOF convention and make that claim. You will be chased away and laughed at. You might even get a beer for the pure entertainment value.

In any event, tt is you who has deliberately painted a horribly negative picture of Ali, Ali's opponents and pretty much the entire 60's and 70''s era. No, you have completely trashed it actually, using negative phrases and words, most of them way off base, to suit your argument. And almost none of it has been based in any actual fact.

Fact.

 

Bloodied vlad i say

 

Really? So where are these cruiserweight Ali's? Cause I tell you what, a cruiserweight Ali would rule that division for a decade.

You also forgot Evander Holyfield. As pure a boxer-puncher as there has been. in the modern era, and a 'small' fighter (smaller than Ali) by the standard of the day. He did rather alright the last time I checked.

 

Excuse me, but how the **** can someone have poor reflexes but have good hand and foot speed?